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[Boris Godunov]

Symphonies are almost always presented by number first and foremost, key indications secondary and subtitles last. So for the Mahler 6th, it's usually designated "Symphony No. 6 in A minor, 'Tragic.'" But in casual conversation, it's just "the Mahler 6th." Less often, people call it "the Tragic," but such folks will usually get sneered at.

I do get rankled when people refer to the Beethoven 9th as the "Ode to Joy." That is simply not a part of its title, nor is it even a subtitle. It's simply the name of the poem that is set to music in the last movement. So "Ode to Joy" should only be used to refer to the last movement, not the whole symphony.

[Japher]

I usually refer to them by singing a little bit of the tune...

Beethoven's 5th; Boom Boom Boom Boooooooooooooommm!

Beethoven's 9th; Na na na na na na na na na na na na naaaaaaaaaaa na na...

makes for a rather harmonious conversation

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Japher
Beethoven has Opus, not K doofus

I go by numbers, but it's not like Beethoven wrote Symphony No. 4, and then went, "Oh crap! I should write 1, 2, and 3 too!"

Bruckner actually has a "Symphony No. 0", because he had already published his symphonies number 1-7 and then decided to publish his first symphonic attempt. So it's labeled as such, which is quite odd if you think about it.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by JohnT
And, going by the information you provided, they did keep the same titles, which is what the current discussion is about.

Well, you complained about Lucas being a revisionist, so I assume you're upset at more than just revising the titles, right?

At any rate, are at least two examples I can think of, both Verdi. His 1843 opera "I Lombardi" was also revised as "Jerusalem" for a Paris in 1847 with changed character names--and in French!. But most performances revert to the original version today

And his 1850 opera "Stiffelio" was revised and repackaged to the public as "Aroldo" in 1857. LIke Lombardi, Stiffelio is more often performed today, and it's generally acknowledged that "Aroldo" is decidely inferior.

But, frankly, none of of them are particularly great operas.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


. So "Ode to Joy" should only be used to refer to the last movement, not the whole symphony.

[thinks seriously about suggesting to Boris that if you asked the average joe what its called, he'd say the "ode to joy", but not sure if that wouldn't be trolling]

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Japher
I usually refer to them by singing a little bit of the tune...

Beethoven's 5th; Boom Boom Boom Boooooooooooooommm!

Beethoven's 9th; Na na na na na na na na na na na na naaaaaaaaaaa na na...

makes for a rather harmonious conversation

"this is, the symphony, that schubert wrote, but never finished, ..."

"Beethoven was deaf. Totally deaf..."

"I am not an english horn, this notes too HIGH, for me..."

[Japher]

I play bassoon, all notes are too high for me

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
[thinks seriously about suggesting to Boris that if you asked the average joe what its called, he'd say the "ode to joy", but not sure if that wouldn't be trolling]

The average joe on the street probably doesn't even know that the choral bit is called the "Ode to Joy," much less that it's just one part of an entire symphony. In fact, I'd wager that out of 90 minutes of music in the 9th symphony, most people are only familiar with about 60 seconds worth of it. And they'd probably call it, upon hearing it, "the bit from Die Hard."

That's substantially better than the 5th, however, where out of 50 minutes of music, most people are only familiar with the first 6 notes...

[Japher]

And they'd probably call it, upon hearing it, "the bit from Die Hard."

Or "Clockwork Orange"

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


The average joe on the street probably doesn't even know that the choral bit is called the "Ode to Joy," much less that it's just one part of an entire symphony. In fact, I'd wager that out of 90 minutes of music in the 9th symphony, most people are only familiar with about 60 seconds worth of it. And they'd probably call it, upon hearing it, "the bit from Die Hard."
.

Die Hard, wuz dat?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Bruckner actually has a "Symphony No. 0", because he had already published his symphonies number 1-7 and then decided to publish his first symphonic attempt. So it's labeled as such, which is quite odd if you think about it.

Yeah, well, where I grew up the average joe thought Bruckner was an expressway in the Bronx.

[Japher]

Die Hard, wuz dat?

He means "Die Hard I: No Subtitle Given"

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Die Hard, wuz dat?

The one where David Addison throws Severus Snape out of a window while Carl Winslow looks on from below.

[Jaguar]

JohnT is clearly right. He is so clearly right that this argument should end. Please.

[Kuciwalker]

QFT re: Jaguar's post

in fact, so QFT that it doesn't even need to be quoted