Post your Revenge of the Sith Reviews and Commentary here!

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
eh, JohnT has provided actual evidence... ergo they aren't bald assertions.

They are arguing about what most people think the first movie released is called. Without a poll any number of boxes and copyrights or links to the movie crawls are not going to answer this question. The evidence is useless for 'pwning' someone since it can't directly measure or even strongly suggest what most people call that movie. We would need a poll to come even close to determining that. So his 'evidence' changes nothing 'pwnage' has not occured.


In fact none of his evidence actually is in anyway inconsistent with Imrans claims and likewise offers by Imran to link to the movie crawls do not constitute evidence of 'most peoples' perceptions. We have no evidence, just people proving facts that both sides already agreed on.

[Lancer]

Ok, saw the flick, thought it was an 8. Thought Anniken went from trying to do the right thing to slicing and dicing the younglings a bit too fast...

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Geronimo
They are arguing about what most people thing the first movie released is called. Without a poll any number of boxes and copyrights or links to the movie cralws are not going to answer this question. The evidence is useless for 'pwning' someone since it can't directly measure or even strongly suggest what most people call that movie. We would need a poll to come even close to determining that. So his 'evidence' changes nothing 'pwnage' has not occured.


In fact none of his evidence actually is in anyway inconsistent with Imrans claims and likewise offers by Imran to link to the movie crawls likewise do not constitute evidence of 'most peoples' perceptions. We have no evidence just people proving facts that both sides already agreed on.

Exactly.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
How the hell did this argument start?

from this post

Originally posted by JohnT
Another bit of commentary:

The introduction of "Episode" numbers, and the renaming of certain films, is as much an insult to the intelligence of the audience as is the character of Jar-Jar. The fact that these two things occurred during the same movie is even more fitting.

for the record I completely disagree with that post, even though I acknowledge that 'Star Wars' was the proper name of the first film for a number of years and should still be accptable today.

Episode numbers were a part of the star wars universe the moment they appeared in the crawl on the big screen. It would be like someone taking serious offense at someone publishing "the Hobbit" as "There and back again a Hobbit's holiday" even though the latter title was actually written into the story itself by the original author decades ago.

Episode numbers were originally part of the atmosphere of the first movie and Lucas made them part of the real world label on the packaging. Big deal.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dissident
star wars is the title of the movie released in 1977.

End of story. End of discussion.

unfortunately they are not debating that. they are arguing endlessly in circles about what 'most people' call that movie and secondarily JohnT is expressing his contempt for anybody calling the first movie released anything other than "Star Wars".

[pchang]

based upon this thread, the majority of posters agree with John T. That is the closest thing to a poll available here.

[Imran Siddiqui]

A few points, but the important part is at the end:

No one said that, but MOST OFTEN, that's what happens, as I pointed out.

Yet there are plenty of examples of series that don't. It's not cut and dried that a series name is the name of a movie. And of course in other mediums (like books) a great deal of the time the series name may be totally different from the book names.

All the article shows is that a news outlet referred to the current movie as "Star Wars," which is just a shortening of "Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith." for space sake in their headline. The full title is mentioned in the actual article: "'Star Wars: Episode III -- Revenge of the Sith' sold an estimated $108.5 million worth of tickets..."

Why not call it "Sith"? People bouncing around in the Entertainment section of CNN will know that is part of the movie's name. Star Wars has become known to most as the series name, with any references to the first movie to be deliniated futher (by whatever means).

Nope, Imran. Anyone who had seen ESB would know that's where Yoda came from, fan or not.

I've seen all the Matrix movies, but I'm not sure if the Merovingian appeared first in the 2nd or 3rd movie. Just because people have seen a series of movies doesn't mean they can tell in which movie something happened. Fans would know, obviously.

Neither che nor Kaak supported your actual argument, you just latched on to them in your desperate grab for someone to support your silly ideas.

Um... no. They made statements/arguments that I agreed with. Rather than repost the argument, I refered to them.

1) I'm not relying on individual posters, I'm relying on a sampling of people posting here to show that most people think of the movie as "Star Wars." And these are people who are, by and large, actual fans. This is directly relevant to the proposition that a majority of people think of the first movie as "Star Wars." What you have cited is not.

2) The link I provided was a lengthy article on the Star Wars ouvre, and in it there is a quote that is directly related to this stupid-ass debate. This is clearly someone with in-depth knowledge of the films who has written it. This has a bit more authority than buddies on a forum agreeing with you.

So you are saying that most people out there, a majority of which are non fans say X, but then use testimony of the fans to make your case, when you say their usage is not the issue? Wha?

You even linked to an Amazon page showing a release of the original trilogy from 2000 on VHS with the rebranding in effect.

My mistake then. It was first done in 2000. Still a decent cry from 1997, when the Special Edition movie was released. And if Lucas thought that people wouldn't know what "A New Hope" would be if on the cover, just simply put "Star Wars" on there as well. Why would that be difficult, and it would be consistent with the rebranding.

Rebranding is when a COMPANY takes a product and revamps it in some way and reintroduces it to the public in order to change public perceptions about said product. It's as simple as changing a logo to having a huge overhaul of a corporate image. The consumers don't "rebrand," the companies do.

So if people call a movie something for 20 years (or 15 or 10 years), a company making a minor change to the name (like adding an episode number and episode title to the box) will make people suddenly stop calling it what they have for X years? Why?

----

Important Part:

This is absolutely going no where. You are not swaying me and I'm not swaying you and neither of us will (unless Geronimo's poll gets done, and I don't see that happening). And I don't have the time to continue this debate, especially with my upcoming schedule. So, I'll just conceed and you can do what you want.

If Drake wants to continue arguing on the a similar pathway to mine, then he's free to do so as well (though I will add that he's 100% correct about the relevancy of the Copyright info), but I don't have the time to join in anymore. You can respond to the above, but I likely won't be reading it.

In fact, I should probably be studying torts (and getting ready for bed) instead of posting this in the first place.

[Drake Tungsten]

If Drake wants to continue arguing on the a similar pathway to mine

Oh, hell no...

[centrifuge]

well, it turns out that you're all wrong

The real name of the 1st movie was "Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker"

[JohnT]

So I fail to see any logic behind a claim that most people would or might assume the title of the original movie was "Episode 4" or "A New Hope" based on a 5 second bit of moving text at the very beginning of the movie that comes after we see a much bigger "STAR WARS" blaze across the screen.

Especially when said crawl only appeared on the movie after the first and second runs, after it had earned more than $193,000,000 at the box office, after 65,000,000 tickets were sold, after it was played out as a theater attraction.

Boris, in all honesty, the opposing side has to argue in the face of so much evidence that I fear that we have been suckered into possibly the biggest troll in ACS history.

... nawwwwwwww.

[JohnT]

Without a poll any number of boxes and copyrights or links to the movie crawls are not going to answer this question. The evidence is useless for 'pwning' someone since it can't directly measure or even strongly suggest what most people call that movie. We would need a poll to come even close to determining that. So his 'evidence' changes nothing 'pwnage' has not occured.

Read above posts regarding 65,000,000 tickets sold before said "Ep 4, ANH" crawl was added. Read above posts citing VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD release titles and dates. Read above posts citing US Copyright Office documents.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Geronimo


unfortunately they are not debating that. they are arguing endlessly in circles about what 'most people' call that movie and secondarily JohnT is expressing his contempt for anybody calling the first movie released anything other than "Star Wars".

Actually, my contempt is directed towards George Lucas who, in addition to being a craptacular director, is a revisionist of the worst order, a man whose constantly shifting vision of what his creation ought to be has sparked this debate and ruined the continuity of his films.

[JohnT]

Episode numbers were originally part of the atmosphere of the first movie and Lucas made them part of the real world label on the packaging. Big deal.

No they weren't. The episode numbers didn't appear until April 1981, after the film went through its first and second runs.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by centrifuge
well, it turns out that you're all wrong

The real name of the 1st movie was "Star Wars: From the Adventures of Luke Skywalker"

I had that book!

My 5th-grade teacher stole it from me because I kept on reading it in class, the beyatch.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by JohnT

Episode numbers were originally part of the atmosphere of the first movie and Lucas made them part of the real world label on the packaging. Big deal.

No they weren't. The episode numbers didn't appear until April 1981, after the film went through its first and second runs.

Lol, for 24 out of 28 years it was there. The first run showing was crippled enough by by the tiny number of participating theaters that the second run a year later practically constitutes the same run. I admit when I saw star wars in 1978 I was young enough that I barely remember it whereas my 1981 recollection is substantially clearer, but let's not pretend that 1977-1980 constitutes some immense chunk of the public star wars experience. I daresay most people who enjoyed the 1977/78 release went to and saw and experienced the 1981 release as well.


To use "the Hobbit" analogy again, nobody complains about or disputes the canonical status of the textual and plot revisions Tolkien made to the text of the Hobbit for the 1954 publication of The Lord of the Rings even though The Hobbit had been in it's original form since 1937. Which version of the Hobbit do you suppose 'most people' think of as the 'real' version?