If your country were to become communist...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Master Zen
So, we haven't really seen true 100% laissez-faire captialism either. Which is why it is foolish to argue ideals and say that a system is better just because its idea is supposedly superior. Reality trounces many ideas and if no true communist state has ever existed maybe, just maybe, it's because such an idea was totally unsuited to reality.

I don´t think that communism is unsuited for reality, I just think that it´s been handled by a bunch of bozos so far, which is way it ends up ****ed sooner or later...

[Az]

I disagree. I think that socialist ideas have influenced so much of the world today, it's mindboggling.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Kidicious


So the US isn't capitalist?

100% laissez-faire capitalist? Nope. The existence of welfare is proof enough.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Agathon

And as usually, the commies refuse to argue anything other than the ideals of communism vs the realities of capitalism since that's the only argument they can defend for any decent amount of time.

It's not as if the other side are paragons. They constantly pretend that the third world doesn't exist while lauding the riches of its exploiters.

One of the many failings of the reality of capitalism, I agree wholeheartedly. Now, would you care to argue the failings of the reality of communism too?

Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
I don´t think that communism is unsuited for reality, I just think that it´s been handled by a bunch of bozos so far, which is way it ends up ****ed sooner or later...

100% of all communist regimes have ended up being led by such bozos. You honestly don't see a pattern there?

[Zoid]

One of the many failings of the reality of capitalism, I agree wholeheartedly. Now, would you care to argue the failings of the reality of communism too?

Well, for one thing communism requires a totally different mindset...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by Master Zen

100% of all communist regimes have ended up being led by such bozos. You honestly don't see a pattern there?

I see a pattern of bozos. Nothing wrong with the ideas

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Az
I disagree. I think that socialist ideas have influenced so much of the world today, it's mindboggling.

The best socialist ideas have been implemented under capitalist systems, just look at the scandinavians. The entire premise of a welfare state is highly socialist and yet co-exists quite merrily in a capitalist system where private property and democracy exist also. And I'll be the first to argue that a certain degree of socialism is necessary for prosperity particularly in third world countries. I also would agree that a heavily socialized economy is far more optimal for an underdeveloped country to start getting on its feet than a neoliberal which only serves to surrender the country to foreign interests.

So yes, there has been a very positive influence of socialist ideas in the world, perhaps on the aggregate the world is better of with it than without it. Still, it's little consolation for the poor sods who had to endure living in a communist regime.

[Agathon]

One of the many failings of the reality of capitalism, I agree wholeheartedly. Now, would you care to argue the failings of the reality of communism too?

You're implicitly assuming a static view of history, denial of which is at the core of Marxism.

Here's why capitalism is ****ed.

(1) Markets have an advantage now because planned economies cannot deal with the sheer amount of information required to make accurate plans.

Information technology is killing that. Contemporary capitalists have a surfeit of readily accessible information on consumer preferences available and it will only become more intense and effective. But that's exactly the information you need to run a planned economy.

(2) The incentive structure of capitalism will cease to function once the labour cost of artificial intelligences becomes cheaper than human labour. When that happens, capitalism is finished and we'll all be put on an allowance.

[Az]

I was one of the "poor sods" who endured living in a communist regime, sweetie. I am telling you now, I am better off now, but most people living there certainly are not.

[Agathon]

Just accept your new machine overlords, Az.

[Az]

Nah. It's all a meaningless distinction, anyhow, in the long run, we're all going polymorphic - football superstar lookalike today, a giant space freighter tomorrow - It will become completely meaningless, in a couple of hundreds of years.

[Agathon]

10 bucks says you end up as a lavatory plunger.

[Az]

Now would I do that? I am not into that at all.

Seriously, what I meant is that every entity would have so much knowledge and power that one would be able to choose whatever lifestyle they want. EVERY lifestyle would be possible. It would be quite awesome, the merging of communism and capitalism.

[Agathon]

Heh... I own. Everyone on the network who is sharing is streaming from my itunes library.

Having seen what's on theirs I ain't surprised.

[Zoid]

Trancendence