There is a new Pope

[Bill3000]

Aw, come on, BD. I love being labeled a heretic, don't try to say that I 'm not.

[Heresson]

benedictxvi@vatican.va

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
There was also strong restistance as JP II decided to get the catholic church out of abortion information centers (where women wanting to undergo an abortion could, after a consultation, get the needed certificate that they underwent a consultation concerning their abortion).
Sadly the struggle ended with a vistory for the vatican, as all the information centers were closed (despite strong resistance even from german bishops).

German bishops

Originally posted by Oerdin
Protestant belief in personal conscience.

this can lead to anarchy

Especially when the previous is not based upon actual scripture.

I think bishops of the church are better theologians than You or me

[Ned]

As others have noted here, if the church actually tried to enforce its doctrine concerning sex and other matters on its flock, it would soon be without a flock at all in much of the world. But it does not actively enforce its dogma, but instead seems to want to live in a fog of self-denial, neither examining whether it's dogma is flawed nor insisting that its flock be faithful to its teachings.

When Ratzinger tried to get American church to effectively excommunicate Kerry, he got little cooperation from some bishops and outright defiance by most. In the end nothing happened. Kerry continued to campaign on a pro abortion platform and continued to claim that he was a good Catholic. The church looked helpless, weak and totally ineffective: a complete laughingstock.

Only a great leader can fix this church. Hopefully Ratzinger is the man for the job. After all, Nixon went to China.

[Heresson]

I agree. The church should've excommunicated Kerry for good. But You can't say it was not completely ineffective - perhaps Kerry lost some votes due to it.
After all, He did lose.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Heresson
I agree. The church should've excommunicated Kerry for good. But You can't say it was not completely ineffective - perhaps Kerry lost some votes due to it.
After all, He did lose.

Why single out Americans? IIRC virtually every predominantly Catholic nation in Europe legalized abortion before the US did? Why doesn't the Papacy pick on some pro-choice Catholic politicians closer to home? Too chicken?

The net effect of the interference with American politics by the RCC will be fewer Catholic politicians. Currently catholics may be nearly one quarter of the US population, but they're no where near one quarter of its politicians.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


. Currently catholics may be nearly one quarter of the US population, but they're no where near one quarter of its politicians.

Maybe its growing up in NYC, but I thought they were pretty adequately represented. Maybe not on the national tickets, but at just about every level below that.

national tickets, Dem.

1972 Shriver for VP, Catholic.
1984 Ferraro for VP, Catholic
2004 Kerry for Pres, Catholic

Unfortunately the only times in recent years the Dems have WON (1976, 1992, 1996) was with two Protestants on the ticket.

Come to think of it they lost in 1988 (Dukakis for Pres, Greek Orthodox) and 2000 (Joe Leiberman for VP, Jewish)

So non-Protestants get nominated, just havent won since JFK. (GOP has never nominated a non-Protestant on the national ticket, have they?)

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by lord of the mark



Maybe its growing up in NYC, but I thought they were pretty adequately represented. Maybe not on the national tickets, but at just about every level below that.

national tickets, Dem.

1972 Shriver for VP, Catholic.
1984 Ferraro for VP, Catholic
2004 Kerry for Pres, Catholic

Unfortunately the only times in recent years the Dems have WON (1976, 1992, 1996) was with two Protestants on the ticket.

Come to think of it they lost in 1988 (Dukakis for Pres, Greek Orthodox) and 2000 (Joe Leiberman for VP, Jewish)

So non-Protestants get nominated, just havent won since JFK. (GOP has never nominated a non-Protestant on the national ticket, have they?)

Now you're beginning to understand. BTW, whatyever happened to JFK?

[Ned]

Religious Affiliation of U.S. Presidents

Denomination	Number of
Presidents	Percent of
Presidents	Percent of
Current
U.S. Pop.	Ratio % of Pres.
to % of Pop.	
Episcopalian	11	26.20%	1.7%	15.4	
Presbyterian	9	21%	2.8%	5.1	
Methodist	4	9.5%	8.0%	1.5	
Baptist	   4	9.5%	18.0%	0.5	
Unitarian	4	9.50%	0.2%	47.5	
Disciples of Christ 	3	7.10%	0.4%	18.7	
Dutch Reformed	2	4.80%	0.1%	48.0	
Quaker	   2	4.80%	0.7%	6.9	
Catholic	   1	2.40%	26.0%	0.1	
Congregationalist/
United Church of Christ	1	2.40%	0.6%	4.0

Keep in mind that in the table above, the % of the U.S. population for religious groups are current figures. Religious groups have had much different proportions at various time in U.S. history.

One of the most over-represented religious groups among U.S. presidents is Unitarianism. Despite merging with Universalism in the 1960s, the combined proportion of Unitarian Universalists in the U.S. population is just 0.2% of the population (one in every 500 Americans). Yet there have been 4 Unitarian presidents.

Another over-represented religious group among U.S. presidents is Dutch Reformed, by virtue of having two U.S. presidents, yet having only a small number of people left in the country who identify themselves as Reformed. The contemporary heir to the Dutch Reformed churches is the "Reformed Church in America," which has about 300,000 members in the U.S. and Canada. (Alternatively, one might count only a single president as Dutch Reformed, if Theodore Roosevelt is counted as an Episcopalian -- sources differ on this subject. Even only one Dutch Reformed president would constitute statistical over-representation.)

After that, Disciples of Christ, Episcopalians, and Quakers have also had representation in the White House far outstripping their proportion of the U.S. population.

On the other end of the scale, the most under-represented religious group is Catholicism, which has had only one U.S. president (John F. Kennedy), despite making up 26% of the current U.S. population. Also under-represented are Baptists, whose proportion of the U.S. population (18%) is twice their proportion of U.S. presidents (9.5%).

Major religious groups in the U.S. which have never had a U.S. president include: Lutherans (about 5% of the U.S. population); Jews (about 2% of the U.S. population); Latter-day Saints (2%); Pentecostals (about 1.8 %); Muslims (approx. 1 to 1.5%); Eastern Orthodox (approx. 1%); and Churches of Christ (1%).

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Now you're beginning to understand. BTW, whatyever happened to JFK?

ya,well McGovern and Mondale didnt lose cause of the Catholicism of their running mates. Now you might say that they only pick Catholic running mates when they think theyre gonna lose. Duke thought he was gonna win, but as a non-Protestant himself he almost had to pick a Protestant running mate. Clintons choice was widely considered surprising, as Gore was not only a fellow Protestant, but a fellow southerner, and a fellow moderate - he was clearly reaching for someone with strong appeal and quals, NOT ticket balancing.

[Dinner]

Carter when with the all protestant all southerner ticket as well.

[Boris Godunov]

Mondale was a Southerner?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Ned
Religious Affiliation of U.S. Presidents

Denomination	Number of
Presidents	Percent of
Presidents	Percent of
Current
U.S. Pop.	Ratio % of Pres.
to % of Pop.	
Episcopalian	11	26.20%	1.7%	15.4	
Presbyterian	9	21%	2.8%	5.1	
Methodist	4	9.5%	8.0%	1.5	
Baptist	   4	9.5%	18.0%	0.5	
Unitarian	4	9.50%	0.2%	47.5	
Disciples of Christ 	3	7.10%	0.4%	18.7	
Dutch Reformed	2	4.80%	0.1%	48.0	
Quaker	   2	4.80%	0.7%	6.9	
Catholic	   1	2.40%	26.0%	0.1	
Congregationalist/
United Church of Christ	1	2.40%	0.6%	4.0

Keep in mind that in the table above, the % of the U.S. population for religious groups are current figures. Religious groups have had much different proportions at various time in U.S. history.

One of the most over-represented religious groups among U.S. presidents is Unitarianism. Despite merging with Universalism in the 1960s, the combined proportion of Unitarian Universalists in the U.S. population is just 0.2% of the population (one in every 500 Americans). Yet there have been 4 Unitarian presidents.

Another over-represented religious group among U.S. presidents is Dutch Reformed, by virtue of having two U.S. presidents, yet having only a small number of people left in the country who identify themselves as Reformed. The contemporary heir to the Dutch Reformed churches is the "Reformed Church in America," which has about 300,000 members in the U.S. and Canada. (Alternatively, one might count only a single president as Dutch Reformed, if Theodore Roosevelt is counted as an Episcopalian -- sources differ on this subject. Even only one Dutch Reformed president would constitute statistical over-representation.)

After that, Disciples of Christ, Episcopalians, and Quakers have also had representation in the White House far outstripping their proportion of the U.S. population.

On the other end of the scale, the most under-represented religious group is Catholicism, which has had only one U.S. president (John F. Kennedy), despite making up 26% of the current U.S. population. Also under-represented are Baptists, whose proportion of the U.S. population (18%) is twice their proportion of U.S. presidents (9.5%).

Major religious groups in the U.S. which have never had a U.S. president include: Lutherans (about 5% of the U.S. population); Jews (about 2% of the U.S. population); Latter-day Saints (2%); Pentecostals (about 1.8 %); Muslims (approx. 1 to 1.5%); Eastern Orthodox (approx. 1%); and Churches of Christ (1%).

http://www.adherents.com/adh_presidents.html

Which presidents were Unitarians? If they include Thomas Jefferson and the old deists they're wrong as many of them, like Jefferson, didn't believe in organized religion at all.
Oh, and Teddy Roosevelt was very much an Episcopalian. He had a regular pew at Trinity Church in NYC. It's marked by a placard. He was a vocal supporter of the Washington National Cathedral building program.

[Alexander's Horse]

placard?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Mondale was a Southerner?

Never mind Mondale was Minnesota.