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**KrazyHorse** · April 18, 2005, 15:00

Originally posted by Verres

I know (or at least, I hope) that's just a troll, but even so - wtf??? And yes, I am taking an arts degree so please forgive the poor quality of my reply

There is a fairly significant, persistent correlation between measurable "intelligence" and field of study. There is also a correlation between "intelligence" and expected earnings. Therefore, to study the effect that undergraduate degree has on expected earnings we should attempt to disaggregate the two. This will provide a more useful measurement of the effect that choice of undergraduate degree has on a given individual.

**GePap** · April 18, 2005, 15:01

Originally posted by Asher
This is something that should've been implied.
1) It makes no sense to clump undergrad and grad degrees together when talking about salary
2) It is missing things such as medicine and law, which are graduate degrees...

Actually, it makes sense in so far as the degree ends up being a professional degree- Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go, and in reality, what you learn in Law school requires no previous undergrad degree. That law schools in the US, as opposed to most of the world expect one to study beforehand something else does not remove the fact that these are similar levels of eduction.

So in fact Law and Medicine shoul be included in such a list for it to be comparable.

**Odin** · April 18, 2005, 15:02

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Lets go Econ, Lets go!

LETS GO BIOLOGY, LETS GO!

**Jon Miller** · April 18, 2005, 15:04

sure....

on another note, I believe that Engineering PHDs start at ~100k..

Jon Miller

**KrazyHorse** · April 18, 2005, 15:04

Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go

Are you out of your mind?

You should probably have mentioned that to the half dozen chem. e. grad students I know before they chose not to get a job straight out of undergrad.

The starting salary of somebody with a PhD in science or engineering is generally about 30% higher than their counterparts with Bachelor's degrees.

**Asher** · April 18, 2005, 15:05

Originally posted by GePap
Actually, it makes sense in so far as the degree ends up being a professional degree- Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go, and in reality, what you learn in Law school requires no previous undergrad degree. That law schools in the US, as opposed to most of the world expect one to study beforehand something else does not remove the fact that these are similar levels of eduction.

So in fact Law and Medicine shoul be included in such a list for it to be comparable.

Nonsense, as they require a lot more schooling.

You have very perverse logic. Which is to be expected of an arts grad, of course.

You don't think graduate-level engineers demand a far higher salary? As someone who knows quite a few engineers with Masters or even PhD, I'll tell you they do command a higher salary. Not just the ones who become professors, but the ones who, say, work at IBM's Software Lab in Toronto...

Having a Masters or PhD significantly affects your salary, and position, fairly heavily.

This is a 4-year Bachelor's degree comparison. That is all. It makes no sense to include Law in such a list, and it says a lot about this list's correlation with intelligence that you would try to argue that.

**Jon Miller** · April 18, 2005, 15:06

only 30%?

I know that there were starting jobs avaiable for physics/endgineering PHDs doing industry for 100k in 2000

maybe that has droped a bit, and maybe that wasn't the average, but they existed at that point in time

Jon Miller

**KrazyHorse** · April 18, 2005, 15:08

It's not the average.

Electrical engineering, for example, probably has one of the bigger leaps in salary from BEng to PhD.

**GePap** · April 18, 2005, 15:09

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

Chemical engineering is about as far as you need to go

Are you out of your mind?

You should probably have mentioned that to the half dozen chem. e. grad students I know before they chose not to get a job straight out of undergrad.

The starting salary of somebody with a PhD in science or engineering is generally about 30% higher than their counterparts with Bachelor's degrees.

Getting a doctorate in any field increases your earnings. A Law degree IS NOT A DOCTORATE, now is it?

**Asher** · April 18, 2005, 15:10

Originally posted by GePap
Getting a doctorate in any field increases your earnings. A Law degree IS NOT A DOCTORATE, now is it?

You're arguing semantics. They take the same amount of schooling to obtain.

Why does it matter what they are called?

**Kontiki** · April 18, 2005, 15:10

A law degree isn't even a masters.

**KrazyHorse** · April 18, 2005, 15:10

No, it's a graduate degree. Just like a PhD is.

Duh.

Do you want to continue making a fool of yourself?

**Verres** · April 18, 2005, 15:11

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
There is also a correlation between "intelligence" and expected earnings.

I think there are too many exceptions to that rule for it to be taken seriously.

My plumber earns a lot more than I probably ever will - yet he is dense, no two ways about it. I'm not talking about the extent of his knowledge, I mean his ability to grasp new concepts, conduct a decent conversation, generally get on in life.

Same with my hairdresser. I don't mind him charging me £150+ each time I go because he is amazing at his job, yet trying to talk to him is positively infuriating.

It could be said, I suppose, that an intelligent person will choose a degree/job most likely to ge them a secure job, and one with high wages. But such generalisations with regard to IQ or whatever other measurement of intelligence is being used, and whether the person is more inclined to science or arts is.....well, mostly insulting, but I refuse to believe the most 'intelligent' people the world has produced thus far were all into chemical engineering.

**KrazyHorse** · April 18, 2005, 15:12

According to GePap it makes sense to compare a 4 year degree in engineering with somebody who does a 4 year degree in liberal arts and then spends another 4 years getting a law degree.

**KrazyHorse** · April 18, 2005, 15:13

Originally posted by Verres

I think there are too many exceptions to that rule for it to be taken seriously.

My plumber earns a lot more than I probably ever will - yet he is dense, no two ways about it. I'm not talking about the extent of his knowledge, I mean his ability to grasp new concepts, conduct a decent conversation, generally get on in life.

Same with my hairdresser. I don't mind him charging me £150+ each time I go because he is amazing at his job, yet trying to talk to him is positively infuriating.

It could be said, I suppose, that an intelligent person will choose a degree/job most likely to ge them a secure job, and one with high wages. But such generalisations with regard to IQ or whatever other measurement of intelligence is being used, and whether the person is more inclined to science or arts is.....well, mostly insulting, but I refuse to believe the most 'intelligent' people the world has produced thus far were all into chemical engineering.

Are you being deliberately thick?

Statistical Correlation -- from Wolfram MathWorld

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/StatisticalCorrelation.html

For two random variates X and Y, the correlation is defined bY cor(X,Y)=(cov(X,Y))/(sigma_Xsigma_Y), (1) where sigma_X denotes standard deviation and cov(X,Y) is the covariance of these two variables. For the general case of variables X_i and X_j, where i,j=1, 2, ..., n, cor(X_i,X_j)=(cov(X_i,X_j))/(sqrt(V_(ii)V_(jj))), (2) where V_(ii) are elements of the covariance matrix. In general, a correlation gives the strength of the relationship between variables. For i=j, ...

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