CanPol: Gomery and a Looming Federal Election

[Ben Kenobi]

Majority reject the bill put forth by the Liberals.

[notyoueither]

This is the issue that gives the Liberals traction when they attempt to tar the Conservatives, Ben.

This is the issue that is keeping the Conservatives away from power.

Take this issue off the table, and Martin would have been a short lived PM after he lost the last election.

Too many Canadians are in favour of recognition for gay couples, and too many of them would be Conservative supporters otherwise. Now combine opposition to that with the effects of the abortion debate and the debate over our relationship with the Yanks and too many people get scared off when it comes time to mark the little x while in the polling booth.

Gandhi said something wise one time when he remarked that he had to hurry to catch up with his people. Well, Ben, the Conservatives have to pick their battles and be open to the feelings of the Canadian people. If they try to fight on all fronts, all the time, they will do nothing but lose.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Majority reject the bill put forth by the Liberals.

Do you mean the vote Harper just lost??

[notyoueither]

Here's a tid-bit for you, Ben.

Anne McLellan would likely be a foot note in Parliamentary history by now if it were not for Conservative opposition to gay rights. She has won several elections where the margin of winning was far fewer than the number of people opposed to Tory opposition to gay rights who cast ballots for her to keep a Tory out.

That's in Alberta.

Tell me how many votes this pointless crusade against human dignity has cost in Quebec.

[notyoueither]

Tell me why 10% of Quebecers would sooner vote for the NDP, a party with zero history in the area, over the Conservatives' anemic 12%?

[Drake Tungsten]

this pointless crusade against human dignity

Even conservatives in Canada frame the debate in these terms? Man, your country is weird...

[Ben Kenobi]

No, I mean the federal bill, put forth by Martin to redefine marriage in parliament.

The majority disagree, and the Conservative party can connect to these people who are without representation by any other federal party.

Given the various flavours of leftish, it's not about adding to their number, but about a fresh stance apart from all the other parties.

Tell me how many votes this pointless crusade against human dignity has cost in Quebec.

These same people will continue to find reasons not to like the Tories, regardless of where they stand on this issue.

The Tories cannot hope to win liberal votes away from the liberals by being more liberal than they. They can hope to win conservative votes away from the Liberals by establishing their position on this issue.

Again, you assume that the majority support gay marriage, and this is just false. If the majority disagree, then Harper is doing himself a grave disservice by catering to the demands of a fringe elite.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

this pointless crusade against human dignity

Even conservatives in Canada frame the debate in these terms? Man, your country is weird...

What other terms can you put it in when your brothers/sisters/cousins/sons/daughters/fathers/mothers are being denied basic recognition of their state of being and choice of partner? ie, they are being denied their human rights.

[Drake Tungsten]

What other terms can you put it in when your brothers/sisters/cousins/sons/daughters/fathers/mothers are being denied basic recognition of their state of being and choice of partner?

Recognition of traditional and customary reality?

ie, they are being denied their human rights.

I see no convincing evidence of that.

[notyoueither]

Then there is also the point that some larger religious sects are attempting to tell smaller religious sects who they can and cannot perform marriage ceremonies for.

There's another social faux paus in my book.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

What other terms can you put it in when your brothers/sisters/cousins/sons/daughters/fathers/mothers are being denied basic recognition of their state of being and choice of partner?

Recognition of traditional and customary reality?

ie, they are being denied their human rights.

I see no convincing evidence of that.

I do when the tax code, family law, inheritance and a myriad of other government sanctioned or organised conventions are excluding people who happen to love a person with the incorrect chromozones.

[Drake Tungsten]

I do when the tax code, family law, inheritance and a myriad of other government sanctioned or organised conventions are excluding people who happen to love a person with the incorrect chromozones.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just find it strange and interesting that public opinion in Canada is seemingly so one-sided on an issue this complex.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
No, I mean the federal bill, put forth by Martin to redefine marriage in parliament.

The majority disagree, and the Conservative party can connect to these people who are without representation by any other federal party.

Given the various flavours of leftish, it's not about adding to their number, but about a fresh stance apart from all the other parties.

You have read entrails that suggest a majority of Canadians favour federal legislation against gay marriage? IOW, do you have a poll to base that on?

These same people will continue to find reasons not to like the Tories, regardless of where they stand on this issue.

The Tories cannot hope to win liberal votes away from the liberals by being more liberal than they. They can hope to win conservative votes away from the Liberals by establishing their position on this issue.

Again, you assume that the majority support gay marriage, and this is just false. If the majority disagree, then Harper is doing himself a grave disservice by catering to the demands of a fringe elite.

You sound a bit like an inquisitor. 'They don't like it so they can burn for all I care.' But guess what, Ben, it isn't they who will burn, it is the chances of the Conservatives to form governments that go up in smoke. Sponsorship scandals be damned. I fear most Central Canadians would prefer the NDP with the balance of power over the Liberals to keep them honest than would favour a socially regressive government to come to power.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

I do when the tax code, family law, inheritance and a myriad of other government sanctioned or organised conventions are excluding people who happen to love a person with the incorrect chromozones.

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm just find it strange and interesting that public opinion in Canada is seemingly so one-sided on an issue this complex.

It isn't, but the problem the Tories have is that a large number of their likely supporters (read federalists in Quebec, and some fiscal conservatives elsewhere) put social policy ahead of economic.

They would vote Tory but for the danger that is presented to them daily during election campaigns. Let me put it this way. No true lefty would vote for a Tory under most circumstances. However, many Tories are of the red variety and do not think that a party that seeks to roll back recent court rulings is fit to govern. In short, the Tories are depriving themselves of the people who have put them over the top in any past elections they have won.

The Tories have to get over the 'find loaded gun, aim at foot, fire!' syndrome.

[Drake Tungsten]

However, many Tories are of the red variety and do not think that a party that seeks to roll back recent court rulings is fit to govern.

Sorry, but I'm drawing a blank on the possible Canadian meaning of "red variety". Little help?