EU citizen will soon need VISA for US

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Not exactly....

That being said, we should expect that non-EU visa waiver countries (Japan, Canada, Singapore) will meet the deadline, or at least get close.

That sounds exactly like what is happening and will continue to happen in light of the fact that according to you only the EU visa waiver countries seem incapable of meeting the deadline or even coming close.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
That sounds exactly like what is happening and will continue to happen in light of the fact that according to you only the EU visa waiver countries seem incapable of meeting the deadline or even coming close.

Exactly. The problem here, again, is that intra-EU coordination of hardware, software, and existing national databases has added a dimension of difficulty to this process that non-EU countries don't have to face, and that quite probably the US Congress (bright and tech-savvy as we all know they are) didn't foresee when they set the deadline.

But the EU still will adopt them, eventually.

And, meanwhile, we'll let them take their time, not because we're nice but because we were never serious about requiring visas to begin with. That was the geopolitical equivalent of threatening to hold our breath until we turned blue.

[DanS]

Rufus: Where does the process stand now? Are they giving us what seem like pretty firm timeframes?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
We're developing a biometric passport. TCO and Dan are right when they say there is no harm in improving security and plugging the holes.

My main beef is a lot of the effort is misdirected into a kind of catch all, scatter gun approach, hotlines and alert levels and other rubbish feel good security measures, when the real failures were in sophisticated security and intelligence and that is where the resources should go imo.

A small example: I'm having my 5 year security clearance review. I've had to provide about 3 times as much information since 9/11. That's at least 3 times as much resources spent checking me out. What for? I think those resources could be better spent elsewhere if we're really serious about catching terrorists and stopping incidents.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by DanS
Rufus: Where does the process stand now? Are they giving us what seem like pretty firm timeframes?

Right now they're moving along. As I understand it, each EU country is responsible for their own production of a common EU passport (which seems goofy to me, but whatever). As a result, some EU countries will actually be meeting the October 26 deadline: Germany, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Belgium and either the Netherlands or Luxembourg (can't remember which). Not surprisingly, those are the richest and best-organized countries in the EU (I'm leaving out the UK because they're not part of the EU passport agreement, IIRC).

So that leaves the EU's poor relation contries -- Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, etc. -- who won't meet the deadline. The EU has asked for a 10-month extension, until August 2006, to bring the rest of those countries into compliance.

One thing I don't know is whether EU countries who are not visa waiver countries -- Greece, for example, as well as most of the recent admissions -- are required to meet this deadline.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
We're developing a biometric passport. TCO and Dan are right when they say there is no harm in improving security and plugging the holes.

My main beef is a lot of the effort is misdirected into a kind of catch all, scatter gun approach, hotlines and alert levels and other rubbish feel good security measures, when the real failures were in sophisticated security and intelligence and that is where the resources should go imo.

A small example: I'm having my 5 year security clearance review. I've had to provide about 3 times as much information since 9/11. That's at least 3 times as much resources spent checking me out. What for? I think those resources could be better spent elsewhere if we're really serious about catching terrorists and stopping incidents.

Yes. There is lots of screwed up stuff, still. For instance I bet I can still rip tits in the CIA and find a bunch of quota queens and very few good linguists.

[Alexander's Horse]

good linguists are invaluable, you need good human assets too

[TCO]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
good linguists are invaluable, you need good human assets too

Well since we didn't even do a good job during the Cold War, why expect that we will do so now?

[Alexander's Horse]

One thing I notice is these groups seem quite easy to infiltrate, clearly not as easy as before 9/11 but still quite open to recruitment, and therefore penetration.

The Australians linked to Al Qaeda were all cleanskins, some met OBL himself, it didn't seem that hard to me to get in or to get to him. Much harder now but this is a standard intelligence operation which professionals should be able to pull off.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by TCO


So much for our friends who said they would do anything to help us. We are on our own to help ourselves. Let them get the ****ing visas.

They ARE helping you. Most european nations are actively involved with US agencies in avoiding terrorist infiltrations since those same terrorits can strike the europeans also.

That you dumbasses don't recognize this effort and just spout idiotic nonsense about them not collaborating goes to show how little you know about the issue and how you're just basing your possition on your hatred of everything european.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
One thing I notice is these groups seem quite easy to infiltrate, clearly not as easy as before 9/11 but still quite open to recruitment, and therefore penetration.

The Australians linked to Al Qaeda were all cleanskins, some met OBL himself, it didn't seem that hard to me to get in or to get to him. Much harder now but this is a standard intelligence operation which professionals should be able to pull off.

I think we are poor in tradecraft (and linguistics is just an example of that). You have to have people who really care about their job and create an ethic that this is much more than a government posting. CIA is full of middle manager buttkiss types. It is antithesis of Naval Reactors or SEAL TEAM organizations or whatever.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Master Zen


They ARE helping you. Most european nations are actively involved with US agencies in avoiding terrorist infiltrations since those same terrorits can strike the europeans also.

That you dumbasses don't recognize this effort and just spout idiotic nonsense about them not collaborating goes to show how little you know about the issue and how you're just basing your possition on your hatred of everything european.

Oh...chill. I don't hate them. I don't really expect that much from them either. I deal with people at work all the time (well on last Geneva trip) who blather on about how rough it is to travel to US. They haven't seen rough.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by TCO


I think we are poor in tradecraft (and linguistics is just an example of that). You have to have people who really care about their job and create an ethic that this is much more than a government posting. CIA is full of middle manager buttkiss types. It is antithesis of Naval Reactors or SEAL TEAM organizations or whatever.

Bottom line is that we suck.

We need to get a top notch spy network the way the East Germans and Russians did it.

A couple of Russian agent hoes sleep with the Marines and get right in the front door of the embassy.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by TCO


Oh...chill. I don't hate them. I don't really expect that much from them either. I deal with people at work all the time (well on last Geneva trip) who blather on about how rough it is to travel to US. They haven't seen rough.

That's the point. You can't expect everyone to comply with your country's wishes. You want to set up visas for all countries without biometric passports so be it, every country has the right to do what they wish. Just don't act like whiny *****es when those same countries retaliate by forcing you to get a visa. Then maybe your next Geneva trip will not be so smooth.

[DAVOUT]

The passport with optical reading is avaible in France since oct 1st 2003.