EU citizen will soon need VISA for US

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Our government is retarded. They allow millions of worthless illegal from Mexico to flood our country with crime and drugs yet the bar honest hard working Europeans from coming over.

Apples and Oranges. They're worried about terrorism. None of the 9-11 highjackers came in through Mexico.

But our government is retarded because we don't have anywhere near the resources to issue visas in Europe in the number they would be demanded, and we can't get those resources any time soon (because there aren't enough people in the Foreign Service, and the process of hiring more takes at least a year). That's why this is a bluff, and our government is retarded for bluffing.

[Pekka]

Rufus, could be.. could be to speed up the new passport types. They were supposed to issue this a long time ago too and enforce this rule.

Say if every Euro had to apply for visa to visit.. how long it woudl take to get that visa? 1 week? 3 weeks? Anywhere from 1 week and longer would be undoable. You can say, its' what you have to do, if you don't want to, go somewhere else. well.. those are words. But it's still undoable. and if all were enforced to have visas, it wouldn't be sorted out in one week per person. Fact.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Pekka
Rufus, could be.. could be to speed up the new passport types. They were supposed to issue this a long time ago too and enforce this rule.

Say if every Euro had to apply for visa to visit.. how long it woudl take to get that visa? 1 week? 3 weeks? Anywhere from 1 week and longer would be undoable. You can say, its' what you have to do, if you don't want to, go somewhere else. well.. those are words. But it's still undoable. and if all were enforced to have visas, it wouldn't be sorted out in one week per person. Fact.

Here in the Philippines, we run the second-busiest US visa unit in the world (Mexico City is #1), and it takes at least 6-8 weeks to get a tourist visa. (That is, one needs to schedule an appointment for a visa interview 6-8 weeks in advance)

If EU countries lost visa-waiver status, London, Paris and Frankfurt would become at least as busy as we are, while having a tiny fraction of our manpower (as well as no experience in dealing with the logistics of such volume). Europeans would end up waiting months for visas.

It's just not going to happen. It's about the passports.

[Pekka]

Well, it would be very logical. About the passports though.. I think it's good we upgrade them, if the US wants to use them as default, that's cool. Get them new passports out then. Also using visas is not a good way to prevent anything when talking about higher risks, better passports makes more of an impact. However, against higher level risks.. there's really not much that can be done in this particular regard.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Pekka
Well, it would be very logical. About the passports though.. I think it's good we upgrade them, if the US wants to use them as default, that's cool. Get them new passports out then. Also using visas is not a good way to prevent anything when talking about higher risks, better passports makes more of an impact. However, against higher level risks.. there's really not much that can be done in this particular regard.

I agree. The US knows that the best defense is better passports, not visas, which is why they're pushing so hard for this. One could argue that, if we're the ones demanding passport changes, we should shoulder the cost of making them; the cost, as I understand it, is the real sticking point here. Unfortunately, our Congress regularly creates policies that it expects other governments to pay for -- though it's usually state legislatures, and not foreign governments, who get dumped on in this way.

In the long run, biometric passports are a good thing and would have been adopted by the EU anyway. What you're really seeing here is the Bush administration's usual, and usually counter-productive, heavy-handed approach to diplomacy.

[DanS]

I think what they wanted to avoid was regular yearly postponement of this. In this case, they'll negotiate a postponement of something shorter than a year with the Europeans.

As GP alludes to, the Euro gov'ts will use the American pressure as the excuse to get it done.

Anyway, as an aside, I understand that 6 EU countries do use biometric passports, so presumably would not need visas. I don't know which countries those are, however. Maybe a show needs to be made of the pressure because a handful of EU countries are balking and the EU countries can't decide on the proper course by themselves.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


I agree. The US knows that the best defense is better passports, not visas, which is why they're pushing so hard for this. One could argue that, if we're the ones demanding passport changes, we should shoulder the cost of making them; the cost, as I understand it, is the real sticking point here. Unfortunately, our Congress regularly creates policies that it expects other governments to pay for -- though it's usually state legislatures, and not foreign governments, who get dumped on in this way.

In the long run, biometric passports are a good thing and would have been adopted by the EU anyway. What you're really seeing here is the Bush administration's usual, and usually counter-productive, heavy-handed approach to diplomacy.

bull****. We can control our borders as we choose. My reservemate died in the Pentagon. I got no problem with tightening things up. You bithc that Bush should have stopped 9-11 and then complain when anything is done.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by TCO


bull****. We can control our borders as we choose. My reservemate died in the Pentagon. I got no problem with tightening things up. You bithc that Bush should have stopped 9-11 and then complain when anything is done.

You jackass, look at the whole thread; I haven't said a word against biometric passports and Bush's response to 9-11 hasn't even come up. All I've said is:

1) We want stuff for our own benefit, but are demanding others pay for it, which is typical of Congress, and

2) This is a stupid bluff because the cost of following through on it would be disasterous for US trade and tourism, and anynody with half a clue already knows that.

Reading comprehension isn't really your long suit, is it?

[TCO]

you r stupid

[GePap]

Why should European government "retaliate"?

Having tourists is a good thing- making it harder for people to come over and shop is a BAD thing. Closing yourself off for the negligible if any actual security gains is moronic. Just the sort of thing I expect from republicans

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


You jackass, look at the whole thread; I haven't said a word against biometric passports and Bush's response to 9-11 hasn't even come up. All I've said is:

1) We want stuff for our own benefit, but are demanding others pay for it, which is typical of Congress, and

2) This is a stupid bluff because the cost of following through on it would be disasterous for US trade and tourism, and anynody with half a clue already knows that.

Reading comprehension isn't really your long suit, is it?

Well I can say that I was looking at a visit to the US at some point soon, especially with the favourable £/$ exchange rate. But if I ever need a visa to do so, I will forego the idea. And if a lot of people in Europe do this, it will seriously hurt your tourist industry...

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by GePap
Why should European government "retaliate"?

Because people generally are willing to pay to retaliate against those that annoy them.

Incidentally, I think using American pressure as an excuse for forcing thru impopular changes is a bad idea. It feeds irrational antipathy against both the 'States and against the political establishment.

[General Ludd]

Why would anyone want to go to the US?

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Why would anyone want to go to the US?

Yes, you are made to feel like you are so lucky to be there

[Kuciwalker]

nm