World Bank

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by TCO


What do you hear that tells you that?

If we're thinking of the same book, blatant anti-American propaganda masquerading as fiction isn't appealing to me.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The World Bank bails out banks too, just indirectly.

yeah? in what way?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
yeah? in what way?

When they make loans it helps banks get paid back for their loans.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

When they make loans it helps banks get paid back for their loans.

and how do they do that?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


and how do they do that?

The World Bank has a different declared purpose than the IMF, but their actual purpose is the same as the IMF - to help banks.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The World Bank has a different declared purpose than the IMF, but their actual purpose is the same as the IMF - to help banks.

you didnt answer the question. in what ways do world bank loans make it easier for banks to get repaid, and for the poor of the country to get screwed?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
you didnt answer the question. in what ways do world bank loans make it easier for banks to get repaid,

By financing projects. The financing indirectly helps banks and other investors in the country.

and for the poor of the country to get screwed?

Many ways. Sometimes they are displaced, although the World Bank is making efforts now not to do that. However the poor almost always have to suffer the burden of the loans through higher taxes either directed at them or that effect them indirectly and cuts in spending for programs that help them. The policies of the World Bank also usually cause inflation which hurts the poor the most. Then of course there's the usual effect of the failed policies which crush the poor by reducing their earning power.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

By financing projects. The financing indirectly helps banks and other investors in the country.

that doesnt make sense - world bank loans would mean it is less likely for the government to take out loans from other banks, because they dont have enough money to repay them.

now if you are talking about FDI, then i would agree. world bank loans would make FDI more profitable/ more likely. but those arnt loans, those are investments by foreign companies. the host country doesnt owe them anything.

Sometimes they are displaced, although the World Bank is making efforts now not to do that. However the poor almost always have to suffer the burden of the loans through higher taxes either directed at them or that effect them indirectly and cuts in spending for programs that help them

you know that doesnt happen - firstly there are no social programs to speak of, and secondly the poor dont have any taxable income. so the poor dont get screwed by world bank loans. half the economy is under the table, and there are no tax collectors in the shantytowns.

There policies of the World Bank also usually cause inflation which hurts the poor the most.

are you kidding? first of all, inflation in these countries sometimes run at least in the 20% range. the world banks strucutral reforms ALWAYS include aggressive anti inflationary measures, many times too aggressive, which results in problems down the road. however, you can NEVER say that the world bank creates inflation.

Then of course there's the usual effect of the failed policies which crush the poor by reducing their earning power.

i agree, but its not the loan itself, its the structural reforms they demand. two different things. you are saying that its the loans that do it, but its not.

[TCO]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
If we're thinking of the same book, blatant anti-American propaganda masquerading as fiction isn't appealing to me.

You don't know what you're talking about. Read the book. It is a simple and old book, but expresses some views and insights well.

[TCO]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/customer-reviews/0393318672/ref=cm_rev_sort/102-9481872-9639336?customer-reviews.sort_by=%2BOverallRating&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&x=12&y=9

From Amazon: "This is one of the most compelling books I have read this year. Although it takes place in the first half of the twentieth century, several of the book's themes resonate today. It forces the reader to slow down in the hectic pace of the world today, and to think deeply about what's going on. Especially in the world today, I feel that this is a must-read.
There is excellent characterization that draws the readers into the lives and events in the books. The writing is literal and matter-of-fact that makes it a fast and enjoyable read without sacrificing clarity or depth. I would recommend this to anyone who has any interest in what's going on in the world today. Forget ideology and politics, this is a thought-provoking book that presents an accurate (albeit sometimes embarrassing) analysis of the US role in the world as a superpower."

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious

When they make loans it helps banks get paid back for their loans..

I have never heard of the world bank refinancing existing debts though I suppose it might concievably have happened in a project or two. I really don't know. I do know that the world bank normally does large scale capital projects which would be impossible to do at a reasonable price with private capital. This is a major subsidy to poorer countries because it gives them access to capital in order to make large scale infastructure improvements.

You can claim that you think the trans-Amazon highway was bad for the enviroment or lead to the explotiation of the rain forest but you can't say the rich were exploiting Brazil by financing the project. It lead to a huge increase in productive land for Brazil and it integrated millions of isolated people with the rest of the nation. Similiar benifets are found in nearly all World Bank projects including the current project to build a modern highway through southeast Asia from China to Singapore. Currently no such road exists but thanks to the world bank soon one will.

[Kidlicious]

Oerdin,

The World Bank doesn't refinance debt. However, it does inject capital into nations where banks are often having trouble collecting debt.

It's generally the wealthy (banks and corporations) that benefit from these projects. Sure everyone benefits from a highway, but corporations need these things to transport goods among other reasons. I don't buy the line that the World Bank's goal is to eliminate poverty. Their record doing that isn't good at all, but a lot of the projects that they've completed have helped Globalization.

Maybe the poor don't actually carry the burden of these projects, but a lot of them are under the impression that they do. The World Bank is not popular among them.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The World Bank doesn't refinance debt. However, it does inject capital into nations where banks are often having trouble collecting debt.

It's generally the wealthy (banks and corporations) that benefit from these projects. Sure everyone benefits from a highway, but corporations need these things to transport goods among other reasons. I don't buy the line that the World Bank's goal is to eliminate poverty. Their record doing that isn't good at all, but a lot of the projects that they've completed have helped Globalization.

when you make less than a dollar a day, and a highway means you can now make 3 dollars a day, that benefits the poor direclty. youve just tripled their daily income. you still havnt said how the world bank bails out banks and crushes the poor through those bailouts.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


when you make less than a dollar a day, and a highway means you can now make 3 dollars a day, that benefits the poor direclty. youve just tripled their daily income. you still havnt said how the world bank bails out banks and crushes the poor through those bailouts.

The problem is that many of these huge capital projects are beautiful to look at, but are not that useful. Africa literally has skyscrapers in the jungle. Better to do micro-aid. Or better yet, to foster capitalism. The single action that we should take is to lower our sugar tarrifs.

[TCO]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


when you make less than a dollar a day, and a highway means you can now make 3 dollars a day, that benefits the poor direclty. youve just tripled their daily income. you still havnt said how the world bank bails out banks and crushes the poor through those bailouts.

1. These projects are not pure make-work. There is an element of them needing to be paid back.

2. (see previous post) Highways through the swamp are not always what should be first priority. It can be make work that although it employs people does not create any value.