Ford lies about fuel economy.

[Dinner]

Accords are very good cars. It is a bit unfair to compare a 1982 Explorer to a 1992 Accord. Cars improved a lot during that decade just as they've improved a lot in the last decade.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Dissident
nope, I don't think they had hemi's back then.

Actually, they were invented back in the '50s, but deemed too difficult to build with the machinery of the day.

[Dinner]

The Hemis from the 60's and 70's were real hemi shaped heads while todays are really modified pentroof designs instead of hemi. It's all a marketing gimick since the engineering doesn't back up the hemi claim.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If nothing else it shows the Americans build very large numbers of superior quality vehicles. You've been denying that all along and even when faced with the hard facts you still quibble. It's ok if you just want to make judges based upon your own preceptions and self bias but at least be honest enough to say you don't know what your talking about and that you just prefer to follow your own bias.

You've done nothing but post irrelevant studies (like initial quality/1st year ownership) and ignore the obvious.

You've no clue what's going on, your American patriotism is blinding you. Hondas and Toyotas are far and away more reliable and better-built and better-designed cars than Fords. It's not even close, actually.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
BUZZZ! Wrong anwser. That survey was the "Dependability" survey which measured problems which occured over the first year of ownership. They also do a long term (3 year study) as well as the intial quality study and a costumer satisfaction study. The numbers are slightly different but the rankings are largely the same in each different study.

No, that's the wrong answer.

3 years is not long term, it's still under warranty for the most part. Everyone knows that American cars tend to self-destruct after the warranty period.

As I go back to the air-conditioning vent examples, the GM quality specs just ask for a MBTF of the warranty period. They look at "average times per year" they would be adjusted according to usability studies, then extrapolate figures. They are designed to be okay while under warranty, but are "untested" after that. Why should they care, after all? GM Goodwrench Service makes them a ****load of money...

Your "vehicle dependability survey", which is the joke of the one that looks at 3-year ownership only (well within the warranty periods), still lists Ford as "below average" -- and Average that is tanked heavily by craptastic makes such as Kia, Daewoo, etc.

Even with your stupid surveys which don't really show post-warranty reliability, Ford is ranked "below average".

As I said before, Fords are not good cars. You're better off with a Honda, Toyota, Mazda, or Nissan. They are proven to be more reliable, even in your flawed 3-year study.

As for it being "scientific", I don't think it's really any more scientific than Consumer Reports. Consumer Reports has a far larger report-base than JD Powers. The only difference is Consumer Report sends out postage-paid envelopes and ask you to fill it in, then mail it in. JD Powers & Associates calls people and asks them.

They're both in the same league of scientific validity.

[Dinner]

Fords are about industry average. Buick, Lincoln, and Cadilliac are beter built cars then either Toyota or Honda while Saturn, GMC, Chevrolet, and Mercury are satistically ahead of every other Japanese company. They're well made cars and you just can't bring your self to admit the truth.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Ford's are about industry average. Buick, Lincoln, and Cadilliac are beter built cars then either Toyota or Honda while Saturn, GMC, Chevrolet, and Mercury are satistically ahead of every other Japanese company. They're well made cars and you just can't bring your self to admit the truth.

Again -- this is while the cars are operating under warranty period. That's not really a concern, the repairs are free.

What's important is long-term reliability, and that's when the American cars really fall off the cliff rapidly.

Ever wonder why Toyotas have high resale values and Fords have terrible resale values?

[Dinner]

Toyotas have a well deserved reputation for quality while companies like Buick, Lincoln, Cadilliac are finally reaping the benifets of a decade spent obsesively working towards higher quality. Preception always lags reality and it will take another decade or so before people realize facts on the ground have changed. Also Japanese imports keep a much tighter control on supply; they do a better job of forcasting demand and keeping production just below demand. The big three have extremely stupid union contracts which require them to keep paying workers even if they shut down production. Thus, from the company's point of view, it is better to just keep cranking out additional cars and trying to find buyers using ever larger rebaits.

That huge glut of cars means supply stays high and prices fall faster. It's simple economics which won't change until the union contracts are changed in order to decrease the over supply situation.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The Hemis from the 60's and 70's were real hemi shaped heads while todays are really modified pentroof designs instead of hemi. It's all a marketing gimick since the engineering doesn't back up the hemi claim.

I don't see having 4 cylinders shut down when not needed is a gimmick. A great way to save on gas when driving pickups.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy


Hmm... I always heard it as

Fu**ed Over Rebuilt Dodge

I'm originally from Utah, no one swears there..........

ACK!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dissident


I don't see having 4 cylinders shut down when not needed is a gimmick. A great way to save on gas when driving pickups.

No, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about extra features like that (which are 20 years old btw) I'm talking about the shape of the engine head's combustion chamber. I real hemi has a perfect half circle which is why it is called a hemi (like hemisphere). The new engine which Chrysler is calling a hemi does not have a perfect hemi shape and instead is a modified pentroof design (which is a circle with two or four flat sides on it where the valves are located). It's not a hemi and the name is just a marketing gimic.

[Dis]

yeah it's a merketing gimick. as for the 20 year old technology, yes it is that old, but no one (at least not the american companies) could get it to work worth a damn . This one has a .42 second response time to get the other cylinders working (or not working). Much better than the old one's I'm sure.

[Dinner]

Yeah, it is better as the stuff from the early 80's was a bit rough. Still all three of the big 3 have been selling this technology since the early 80's. Today's power on demand (as GM calls it) is just updated with better computers, better sensors, and better software. Same basic system though.

[Velociryx]

'97 Ford Ranger, 116k miles on it. Has needed regular oil changes and occassional tires.

Plan to drive it forever.

-=Vel=-

[KrazyHorse]

On the highway my 13 year old camry gets 32 mpg (american gallon)