Ford lies about fuel economy.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher
Why would you settle for something you know is going to have more problems and cost more to maintain?

Because many brands do not and the facts back me up.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I said cars not engines. Engines only get designed once every 10-20 years or so thus they just keep using which ever ones are available. The current Focus was designed before Ford upped it's ownership to the high 40% of Mazda stock. When that happened Mazda was given responsibility for all small cars. Thus the next Focus will be based upon a Mazda while all of Mazda's larger cars (except the Rx/miata plateform) will be Ford designs.

The Mazda6 is sure as hell not a Ford design, and was out well after Ford upped its share.

More inconsistency?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Because many brands do not and the facts back me up.

Your "facts" show Ford as below average in reliability -- substantially less reliable than Toyota and Honda -- and this is during the warranty period, where it doesn't cost you anything.

I'm sorry, Oerdin, but the facts show Fords are less reliable. Less reliable cars cost more to maintain.

The facts don't back you up, the only thing backing you up is your ego.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher
Whoops -- looks like you were wrong again, Oerdin.

Maybe if you read a few more car magazines...

Learn to read! I said when it is replaced!

All they've done is continue to use the current model for another year. When it is replaced it will still be a Mazda because Mazda is the only one which designs small cars in the Ford Empire. That's their job. You are so funny when you flail about like this.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher


The Mazda6 is sure as hell not a Ford design, and was out well after Ford upped its share.

More inconsistency?

Hello!! Earth to Asher, come in Asher. The current product cycle was designed before Ford upped it's share in Mazda. these are for all future designs. This has been explained to you multiple times.

[rah]

One thing Asher, since you don't recognize the three year studies and keep hounding on the long term. From everything that I've read, it seems that the american cars are making improvements. Buicks are scoring higher along with other manufacturers. It's going to be awhile before these improvements are seen in long term studies so you can keep safely keep preaching for a few more years before there is any definitive proof that you can be contradicted.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Asher
I'm sorry, Oerdin, but the facts show Fords are less reliable. Less reliable cars cost more to maintain.

The facts don't back you up, the only thing backing you up is your ego.

I never claimed other wise. You claimed American cars were all junk and I proved that was not true. You're stuck on Ford because you got stepped on when it came to your original claim.

[Asher]

Originally posted by rah
One thing Asher, since you don't recognize the three year studies and keep hounding on the long term. From everything that I've read, it seems that the american cars are making improvements. Buicks are scoring higher along with other manufacturers. It's going to be awhile before these improvements are seen in long term studies so you can keep safely keep preaching for a few more years before there is any definitive proof that you can be contradicted.

I will agree that we don't know the long-term reliability of the current cars, but I will not give them the benefit of the doubt. I remember hearing in the 90s that Ford was making their cars more and more reliable, and late-90s Fords are still junk for reliability in general.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I never claimed other wise. You claimed American cars were all junk and I proved that was not true. You're stuck on Ford because you got stepped on when it came to your original claim.

Ford, GM, Chrysler...it doesn't matter much, really. They're all in the same boat.

You didn't prove that it was not true, you proved that they are indeed less reliable than the big Japanese brands. IMO, that makes them junk.

It's like buying a Zenith TV over a Sony TV...you just don't do it.

[rah]

Yes, but seeing them improve in intial quality and three year reliability in relation to foreign models shows they may be turning the corner. It takes a long time for percetions to change.

And Sony TV quality has been headed south for almost a decade, but many people still swear by them.

[Asher]

Originally posted by rah
Yes, but seeing them improve in intial quality and three year reliability in relation to foreign models shows they may be turning the corner. It takes a long time for percetions to change.

While this is still nice in theory, I have heavy doubts due to what I hear from my brother who worked in QA for the air vent designs in the Pontiac G6. At the same time they were doing the Camry air vents, and the difference in quality assurance requirements was staggering.

Pontiac's requirements were based on average use over the warranty period, Toyota's was more than an order of magnitude higher.

[Thorgal]

Excepting Ford, I know little about GM and the other americans cars since those cars have not succes at all here. I dont know if they have improved lately but perceptions have not. People see americans cars not only as big fuel consumers but as low technology, low performance bad designed slow ugly cars and when they try to sell designs a la european (or japnesse) they are seen as some sort of low quality copy.

About Fords models most people dont think about them as "american cars". I have never had one, but in all comparisons of specialized magazines they obtain qualifications mostly at the same level as japanesse or european cars.

[Asher]

Ford's European cars are very, very different from their American cars.

[Spec]

Originally posted by Asher
Ford's European cars are very, very different from their American cars.

Escort Cosworth for example. No comparison what so ever with the american Escort.

Anybody wonders why american cars have no succes in anyother country than Canada and the US, unlike japaneese and euro cars?

Please.....

Spec.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by rah
And Sony TV quality has been headed south for almost a decade, but many people still swear by them.

Their prices haven't though!