Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[Myrddin]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ned
Here is a detailed account of the negotiations between Germany and Britain that occurred in late September and early October. According to the footnotes, critical British documents on these negotiations remain under seal until 2015. But what seems clear is that Hitler acceeded to British demands for a peace conference, but still Chamberalain decided for war. It is unclear why, but FDR may have had something to do with it.]

The acts not words quotes might give you a clue

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned
Here is a detailed account of the negotiations between Germany and Britain that occurred in late September and early October.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Hitler/19...hapter/02.html

Quoting David Irving and expecting to be taken seriously - you would have a better chance if you claimed that the world are flat.

[Ned]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Quoting David Irving and expecting to be taken seriously - you would have a better chance if you claimed that the world are flat.

It purports to be a factual summary of events. What in particular do you find wrong with this summary?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned


It purports to be a factual summary of events. What in particular do you find wrong with this summary?

Your source. He is a neonazist that tries to whitewash and deny any atrocities that was done during the german nazi regimes lifetime.

[Ned]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Myrddin

Originally posted by Ned
Here is a detailed account of the negotiations between Germany and Britain that occurred in late September and early October. According to the footnotes, critical British documents on these negotiations remain under seal until 2015. But what seems clear is that Hitler acceeded to British demands for a peace conference, but still Chamberalain decided for war. It is unclear why, but FDR may have had something to do with it.]

The acts not words quotes might give you a clue

Myrddin, could you explain yourself a bit more? Germany made a concrete, public offer of peace, and in private promised to establish Polish and Czechoslovakian states. They said they wanted to keep the former German lands in Prussia and wanted return of the German colonies. It is clear that this offer was rejected by Britain before Hitler ordered offensives in the West.

[Ned]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Your source. He is a neonazist that tries to whitewash and deny any atrocities that was done during the german nazi regimes lifetime.

Thanks. Yes I checked him out and he does seem to have a record off denying that Hitler was responsible for the Holocost. But that is not the topic here. The question is whether the facts, as reported by Irving, regarding the peace overtures by Hitler are accurate.

Here is a link to Hitler's Oct. 6 speech in its entirety. http://www.adolfhitler.ws/lib/speeches/text/391006.html The speech does call for European peace conference.

"....I do not believe that there is any responsible statesman in Europe who does not in his heart desire prosperity for his people. But such a desire can only be realized if all the nations inhabiting this continent decide to go to work together. To assist in assuring this co-operation must be the aim of every man who is sincerely struggling for the future of his own people.

To achieve this great end, the leading nations of this continent will one day have to come together in order to draw up, accept, and guarantee a statute on a comprehensive basis which will insure for them all a sense of security, of calm - in short, of peace.

Such a conference could not possibly be held without the most thorough preparation; this is, without exact elucidation of every point at issue.

It is equally impossible that such a conference, which is to determine the fate of this continent for many years to come, could carry on its deliberations while cannon are thundering or mobilized armies are bringing pressure to bear upon it.

If, however, these problems must be solved sooner or later, then it would be more sensible to tackle the solution before millions of men are first uselessly sent to death and milliards of riches destroyed.

Continuation of the present state of affairs in the West is unthinkable. Each day will soon demand increasing sacrifices.

Perhaps the day will come when France will begin to bombard and demolish Saarbruccken. German artillery will in turn lay Mulhouse in ruins. France will retaliate by bombarding Karlsruhe and Germany in her turn will shell Strasbourg.

Then the French artillery will fire at Freiburg, and the German at Kolmar or Schlettstadt. Long-range guns will then be set up and from both sides will strike deeper and deeper and whatever cannot be reached by the long-distance guns will be destroyed from the air.

And that will be very interesting for certain international journalists and very profitable for the airplane, arms, and munitions manufacturers, but appalling for the victims.

And this battle of destruction will not be confined to the land. No, it will reach far out over the sea.

Today there are no longer any islands. And the national wealth of Europe will be scattered in the form of shells and the vigor of every nation will be sapped on the battlefields.

One day, however, there will again be a frontier between Germany and France, but instead of flourishing towns there will be ruins and endless graveyards.

Mr. Churchill and his companions may interpret these opinions of mine as weakness or cowardice if they like. I need not occupy myself with what they think; I make these statements simply because it goes without saying that I wish to spare my own people this suffering.

If, however, the opinions of Messrs. Churchill and followers should prevail, this statement will have been my last.

Then we shall fight. Neither force of arms nor lapse of time will conquer Germany. There never will be another November 1918 in German history. It is infantile to hope for the disintegration of our people.

Mr. Churchill may be convinced that Great Britain will win. I do not doubt for a single moment that Germany will be victorious.

Destiny will decide who is right.

One thing only is certain. In the course of world history, there have never been two victors, but very often only losers. This seems to me to have been the case in the last war.

May those peoples and their leaders who are of the same mind now make their reply. And let those who consider war to be the better solution reject my outstretched hand."

[Ned]

Che, what do you think of John Lewis of the CIO asking FDR to back Hitler?

[Dr Strangelove]

Ned, that very year Hitler had promised to support the integrity of Czechoslovakia and had promised that the Sudetenland was his last territorial demand. Why should Chamberlain have beleived his promise of restoring an independent Poland? Chamberlain's response demanded "acts - not words alone". If Germany only wanted Posnan and West Prussia (which includes the Danzig corridor) why could not Germany have stopped the advance of its army upon occupying the desired territory? Failing to do that why didn't they simply evacuate their forces from the areas not claimed and let the Polish government return? Please notice that while the German offer mentions restoring Poland it does not mention whether the former government was to be returned to power or if a German puppet state was to be formed. Remember that technically Slovakia and the Czech state were still "independent" even though occupied by German troops and the government rendered totally subservient to Germany.

It's like as if you took over Ted Striker's farm because you had a dispute over the bottom forty, then when folks across the road protested you offered to keep the bottom forty, but re-establish the Striker farm without mentioning whether you were going to let Ted have it back free and clear.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned


Note also that after the war started, the Germans wanted a negotiated settlement; but the Brits refused to negotiate.

Yeah- give us the Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Yugoslavia, France, the Baltic States, European Russia, the Balkans, the Greek Islands and then we'll quit.

Oh, and those bits of Africa and Asia we're not letting Mussolini play with too.


I love the bit where you say 'after the war started' as if it just blossomed into existence like a little Alpine flower, without any help from broken treaties and German armed forces crossing into a sovereign state and bombing its capital.

[Alexander's Horse]

Hitler took the decision to attack Poland regardless of the negotiation that were going on

German special forces, from the Brandenburg regiment, seized a bridge in the Carpathian mountains at least 24 hours before the attack because of a communications glitch

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Ned, that very year Hitler had promised to support the integrity of Czechoslovakia and had promised that the Sudetenland was his last territorial demand. Why should Chamberlain have beleived his promise of restoring an independent Poland? Chamberlain's response demanded "acts - not words alone". If Germany only wanted Posnan and West Prussia (which includes the Danzig corridor) why could not Germany have stopped the advance of its army upon occupying the desired territory? Failing to do that why didn't they simply evacuate their forces from the areas not claimed and let the Polish government return? Please notice that while the German offer mentions restoring Poland it does not mention whether the former government was to be returned to power or if a German puppet state was to be formed. Remember that technically Slovakia and the Czech state were still "independent" even though occupied by German troops and the government rendered totally subservient to Germany.

It's like as if you took over Ted Striker's farm because you had a dispute over the bottom forty, then when folks across the road protested you offered to keep the bottom forty, but re-establish the Striker farm without mentioning whether you were going to let Ted have it back free and clear.

True. To some extent, Hitler dug is own grave if he truly did not want war with Britain. He humiliated Chamberlain. Chamberlain was not going to be twice humiliated.

Your are right that Hitler could have offered to have international troops police the Polish areas pending a peace conference.

[Ned]

Originally posted by molly bloom



Yeah- give us the Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Yugoslavia, France, the Baltic States, European Russia, the Balkans, the Greek Islands and then we'll quit.

Oh, and those bits of Africa and Asia we're not letting Mussolini play with too.


I love the bit where you say 'after the war started' as if it just blossomed into existence like a little Alpine flower, without any help from broken treaties and German armed forces crossing into a sovereign state and bombing its capital.

Molly, well I have no idea where you came up with this. The events we are talking about occurred in September and October of 1939. This was at a time that the German armed forces were telling Hitler that they could not mount an offensive West until 1942.

Now, clearly Hitler invaded Poland. But he did not think, due to prior appeasements by Chamberlain, that Chamberlain would do anything about it. He was wrong, of course. And that is why I say underestimating Britain was his biggest mistake.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Hitler took the decision to attack Poland regardless of the negotiation that were going on

German special forces, from the Brandenburg regiment, seized a bridge in the Carpathian mountains at least 24 hours before the attack because of a communications glitch

AH, the Poles had not been negotiating all summer. At the behest of England, all they did at the last moment was send their Ambassador to see Hitler. But he had no power to negotiate. The Germans were intercepting communications between Britain and Poland where the Poles made it clear that they had no intention to negotiate anything, but would go through the motions for Britain's sake.

As was mentioned earlier, Hitler set the plan to invade Poland into effect after the Brits gave Poland their blank check and Poland stopped negotiating. The date set for the invasion was August 26. But on that same date, or was it August 25, the formal Brit alliance with Poland was announced and Mussolini said to Hitler that he would not join the war if Britain and France did declare it. Hitler then tried to resume diplomacy and sent the formal offer to Poland that I quoted above. In effect, the Poles blew him off.

[Alexander's Horse]

Well the stupid Poles woud have been much better off siding with Hitler, ceding territory to Germany in return for territory in Russia. That might have changed history.

But the Poles were very stupid, always have been. Stupid nation, stupid Pope.

It shows the danger of giving security guarantees to small stupid nations. Taiwan is the main example today.

[Ecthy]

Finally AH has come to his mind.