Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned


I agree with this point, that Germany fully intended to start a war with Poland. They, however, had no intention of starting a war with Britain. So, when you say that Germany started THE war, we have to define which war it started.

What I have tried to demonstrate by facts is that Britain intended to start a war with Germany, but that Germany did not intend to start a war with Britain.

I think you must agree with this as the facts are on this issue are almost beyond dispute.

Now, if the war between Germany and Britain was the World War, who started it?

It was Britain that declared war on Germany, not the other way around. The question of whether Britain was justified or not is a separate question. Britain had justification, in my view, when Germany took over Czechoslovakia to the extent that Britain was guaranteeing the Versailles and related treaties.

Your logic keep on confusing me. Germany knew very well that an attack on Poland was the same thing as declaring war against Britain and France, and Germany chose to attack Poland despite of the knowledge of this. How are you able to get to the conclusion that Britain and France was the agressors when in fact the only nation that attacked another country was germany ?

Britain did not declare war on germany, it was quite opposite, germany declared war against Britain when they attacked Poland.

[Ecthy]

No they didn't, they expected Britain to back down as they did in 38, Hitler was hopping mad after the declaration of war had come in on September 3.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ned


1) I agree that Britain was trying to prevent a war with Poland by giving it the blank check, et al.

2) The balance of power idea is the true cause of Britain's interference. It gave the blank check and defensive alliance with Poland in order to preserve the balance of power. Thus the reason for Britain's interference was primarily to protect its own interests. It could not and did not want to tolerate a restored Germany on the continent.

And ?

A better analogy would have been Britain (and its allies) declaring war on Iraq in 1990 in response to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Had the Brits set its goal then the elimination of Saddam, and not just getting Iraq out of Kuwait, the parallel would be complete. (Many people criticize the Gulf War allies for not doing just that.)

Nope. This is a meaningless analogy. It was possible to free Kuwait without going through Iraq, while it was in no way feasible to free poland without going through germany. Anyway, germany solved the problem by their attack north and west.

My analogy with the terroist still holds because Poland had the choice to give in to the terrorist's war threat or fight back with the support of Britain and France.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ecthelion
No they didn't, they expected Britain to back down as they did in 38, Hitler was hopping mad after the declaration of war had come in on September 3.

That may have been the thinking in Berlin that Brits and French just should have rolled over, but really, is it sane to rely on such assumptions ? Just because they have done it before doesn't imply they will do it again.

[Ecthy]

they always went "vabanque", that is putting it all on one card. it's not sane, it's nazithink. the beginning of the end at that point.

[BlackCat]

You are right that they were "putting all on one card" several times - the problem was that they had a strong card as they proved in the west - try imagine what the result could have been if they had played it right in the east (sorry that I in this way returns to the OP).

[Ned]

Blackcat, Ecthelion is correct. The ultimatum that arrived in Germany two days after the invasion had begun genuinely surprised and shocked the German government.

[Ecthy]

one more thread whereeveryone agrees they just want to brag with their knowledge

[Ted Striker]

Natürlich!

[Ecthy]

I würde es schlagen.

[Ted Striker]

Ich auch!

[Ecthy]

honestly, with a bit more hair than I have now I look like the dood in your avatar icon

[Ted Striker]

I saw your picture once that you posted, you were on a ski trip or something.

I think you do look like that guy.

[Ecthy]

yeah, that ski trip pic is only topped by one else... in real life I look like sh!t, but even on the worst pic ever made of me (Apolyton picture contest #3) I look like that dude

some late night dude he is? shows how much humour I have.

[Ecthy]

contest #4 actually