Apostates of Islam

[DinoDoc]

You expect reasoned views from a thread that starts out like this one?

[Ted Striker]

Osama Bin Laden's momma is so fat she got on a talking scale and it said, "get the **** off!"

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

The Koran says that only good muslims are fundimentalists

And the Bible says you can just follow the verses you want, right?

commited pedophilia with a 9 year old

This statement by itself shows that you are coming at this with prejudice and bias and not logically weighing Christianity and Islam. I've heard this on numerous occasions by ignorant people who don't realize that there are sometimes familial obligations to marry people, but that doesn't mean you have sex with them.

The 9 year old was married by Muhammed, but he did not have consummate the marriage when she was young. It was done because her family was killed and according to Arabic tradition he was to take her as a wife so she would be taken care of, not to have sex with .

One of the main problems is people trying to analyize another culture without any knowledge of that culture other than the shallowest view.

Erm, didn't he have sex with her when she was like 12, though?

[Ted Striker]

Osama Bin Laden's momma is so fat she jumped for joy and got stuck.

[DinoDoc]

[Imran Siddiqui]

You expect reasoned views from a thread that starts out like this one?

Guess not.

Erm, didn't he have sex with her when she was like 12, though?

If he did have sex with her when she was 12, then that is no big deal at all. When the life expectancy is 30, when do you think women should start having kids?

There is a reason that 13 is the year of bar mitzvah in the Jewish faith.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Jaguar

Erm, didn't he have sex with her when she was like 12, though?

dude, my greatgrandmother was married at 13

that isn't even pedophilia now...

(although still ****ed up now..)

12 is just too young in our culture.. where many are taken care of by their parents until they are older than 20

Jon Miller
(I can still remember this girl I knew when I was in 9th grade whose body compared favorably to models at the age of 13 or so)

(I also did know of people who were having sex at age 12, with others of a similiar age (generally the guy was = or > girl))

[Ramo]

Atheists often go through bouts of rabid anti-clericalism after we "convert" (not cooincidentally, generally, when we're pubescent know-it-alls), particularly against the religion of their parents. For most people around here, that was Christianity; for me, Islam. We usually mellow out on the subject.

Maybe I should start a website, "Apostates of Anti-Islamic Bigotry."

[Jaguar]

I'm an Atheist whose parents are Jews, and oddly, I dislike Islam and Christianity far more.

Judaism at least has its wonderful simplicity. Just one God, no holy spirits or walking on water or any of that other silly stuff.

[Gatekeeper]

I have faith, but not religion. I lost my faith in religion years ago, but not my faith that there's more going on than we can ever hope to learn in a single lifetime.

Gatekeeper

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The Koran says that only good muslims are fundimentalists

And the Bible says you can just follow the verses you want, right?

Actually, yes. At least in mainline (nonfundimentalist) Protestant groups great pains are taken to say that pre-Jesus Jewish teachings were flawed and thus Jesus needed to be sent to put people back on the right track. In other words the old testament has much which should be ignored but the new testiment contains Jesus's teachings and so should trump the old testiment.

You may recall I said all three of the monotheistic religions are screwed up and I don't believe ay one of them, however, Islam is by far the most screwed up and prone to violence of all of them. You just can't escape Mohammed's teachings and they are royal screwed up.

commited pedophilia with a 9 year old

This statement by itself shows that you are coming at this with prejudice and bias and not logically weighing Christianity and Islam.
The 9 year old was married by Muhammed, but he did not have consummate the marriage when she was young.

That is open to debate even amoung muslim scholars. No one really knows if he just married her and didn't have sex with her or if he was a filthy pedophile. Logic says he probably had sex with his wife. In any even Mohamed was still a rapist, a thief, a slaver, a murderer, and a power mad cult leader who ordered the deaths of just about everyone who didn't join his cult. Mohammed was an 8th century Hilter, Stalin, or Saddam. There is no getting around the fact that he commited horrible crimes, extolled his followers to commit still more horrible crimes, and that his cult was born in violence and violence remains it's core teachings to this day. Read your Koran and see how apostates, nonbelievers, and women are treated. It's violent and it's barbaric.

One of the main problems is people trying to analyize another culture without any knowledge of that culture other than the shallowest view.

I think I have a pretty good view of the culture. I just see it for what it is. Barbaric. Watch the video of the couple being stoned to death if you think it is not barbaric. That is Islam practiced according to the Koran.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
You expect reasoned views from a thread that starts out like this one?

As usual nothing but snide comments and nothing of value being contributed. At least you are consistant.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Jaguar
I'm an Atheist whose parents are Jews, and oddly, I dislike Islam and Christianity far more.

Judaism at least has its wonderful simplicity. Just one God, no holy spirits or walking on water or any of that other silly stuff.

and stonings.

[Jaguar]

That too.
I know for a fact that we Jews have plenty of backward, contradictory, or discriminatory stuff in our holy books, but we ignore them.

Leviticus 20:13 for example.

[Spiffor]

Shi once had a very interesting argument that had convinced me: it's that Islam's dogma fundamentally has more potential for fundamentalism than the Jewish or Catholic one. Besides, the argument can be used to exlpain why it seems protestantism has a higher potential for such moronism as well.

AFAIK, Jews and Catholics consider their sscripture to be the work of man, inspired by God. As such, they give an important role to tradition and interpretation, and they understand the scripture is not to be taken literally, as it has been written by faillible men.

OTOH, the Coran is directly the word of God: Mohammed learned by heart what God told him, and he recited it back. It's one of the reason the Coranic schools insist so much on learning by heart btw.
Besides, unlike catholicism, Islam is not an organized religion, and anybody and his dog can become a priest (I think it's different in the Shia subsection, but I'm not sure). This leads to a variety of schools of thought, whether liberal, conservative, or outright reactionary/fundamentalist ones. But the dogma of scripture providing the one literal truth does help the fundamentalists significantly.

In a time where many Muslims feel alienated by the modern world, it's quite an ordinary reaction that many want to go back to their roots (at least, to what they perceive* as their cultural roots) and go fundie. But even if our times favour fundamentalism, Islam had a recurrent problem with that notion ever since the end of its golden age.



*The crap spewed by many fundie groups today is a reaction to moderity, and it has been invented only some decades ago, just like much of the crap spewed by fundamentalist Evangelicals has been invented in the 19th or 20st century.