Apostates of Islam

[Dinner]

DinoDoc, let me get this straight. In order to determine what is or isn't Islamic I quote the Koran and you quote... USA Today?

[Heresson]

Islam is supposedly God's direct words so it is much more difficult to remove the 8th century barbarism from it compared to the other monotheistic religions.

I think You mean VIIth century barbarism :
Muhammad lived 570(1)-632, started having revelations 610. Al-Qur'an first official version came under rule of Uthman, and while I don't recall the exact dates (Abu Bakr 632-634, Umar 634-644, Uthman 644-?), it's still first half of VII century

and the genicide of all the Jews in western Arabia because they dared to want to keep their own religion.

Not all Jews in western Arabia, but just Banu Qurayza, and just men; women and children were enslaved, three or two man were spared as well. Other tribes were expelled.

That's forcing a barbaric 8th century legal code onto modern life.

shari'a formation's more complicated

European fundimentalists claimed that Europe had decayed because people weren't following god's will (sound familiar compared to modern Islam?) so they demanded unchristian things be burned including ancient greek and roman books.

bs

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Not for her whole life, however. That's why I find the idolization of the Virgin Mary as bizarre. She didn't die a virgin, so she wouldn't be permanently ensconced that way.

How do You know she didn't remain virgin?

Astrolabs were ancient Babalonian inventions

Really? I guess I was wrong in this case.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Heresson
Evangely of Mary Magdalene is gnostic crap.

There are hints in the official four that it wasn't.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Heresson
How do You know she didn't remain virgin?

Cuz Jesus had brothers.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Heresson


How do You know she didn't remain virgin?

because she allegedly had a child... sperm must combine with egg... unless they had artificial insemination in those days, SHE HAD SEX...

the idea that Mary could have had a child without sex is pure bull**** and fantasy... ONLY A COMPLETELY IGNORANT MORON WOULD BELIEVE THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION FAIRY TALE

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Heresson
Not all Jews in western Arabia, but just Banu Qurayza, and just men; women and children were enslaved, three or two man were spared as well. Other tribes were expelled.

You may recall Slobo being tried for Genocide because he drove out most of a religious group even though he only killed a few thousand. It's still genicide.

bs

It's mirely the truth. The Christian fundimentalists burned a hell of a lot of books which they deemed to be unchristian and thus the source of Europe's problems. Fundimentalism was alive and well in Christianity. Now days the fundimentalists are, thankfully, a tiny minority. They are a less tiny minority in muslim countries and if one believes in Islam the fundimentalists are religiously correct. Christian fundimentalists are religiously wrong and are shown time and again in open debates how the teachings of Jesus contradicts them. That of course wouldn't stop a fundimentalist though.

[Jon Miller]

some think that they are all older

including noncatholics

(I don't remember the reasons)

JM

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Heresson
How do You know she didn't remain virgin?

According to the Bible, Jesus had siblings. Where did they come from?

Nothing in the Bible says she remained a Virgin for her entire life, and it's pretty silly to assume so given that Jesus had siblings and Mary remained married to Joseph to the end of her days.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Read Bible. Jesus says that. He says for example You don't have to fast in sabat.

But he did not disavow all of the Old Testament, did he? He only said that there are certain things you don't have to do anymore.

Jesus repeatedly said that his teachings were the way to salvation and where the Torah (old testament) came into conflict with his teachings the Torah was wrong. Still very cult like in my mind but at least it is a cult which dumped the old testament crap. The stonings you speak of Jesus ordered stopped when pious people tried to stone Mary Magdelane to death. Don't you remember he said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Jesus specifically dumped all that old testament stoning junk which you quoted earlier.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The stonings you speak of Jesus ordered stopped when pious people tried to stone Mary Magdelane to death.

It wasn't Magdalene who was being stoned. The woman being stoned was unnamed. The confusion lies in that 1), Mary was a common name, 2) the deliberate campaign to discredit her in the early Church, since her teachings conflicted with Peter's. So they said she was a prostitute, and then made the assumption that whereever a woman in sin was portayed in the NT, it was MM.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


There are hints in the official four that it wasn't.

Like what?

Cuz Jesus had brothers.

According to the Bible, Jesus had siblings. Where did they come from?

In that-time Palestine (also Egypt and other places) people were referring to themselves as "brothers" when they were cousins or even friends.

because she allegedly had a child... sperm must combine with egg... unless they had artificial insemination in those days, SHE HAD SEX...

the idea that Mary could have had a child without sex is pure bull**** and fantasy... ONLY A COMPLETELY IGNORANT MORON WOULD BELIEVE THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION FAIRY TALE

If You can believe in God, You can believe in immaculate conception. God has no sperm.

You may recall Slobo being tried for Genocide because he drove out most of a religious group even though he only killed a few thousand. It's still genicide.

I was referring to "all Jews in western Arabia", not to the genocide part.

t's mirely the truth. The Christian fundimentalists burned a hell of a lot of books which they deemed to be unchristian and thus the source of Europe's problems

I don't say they didn't destroy any book, but used many of them, preserved knowledge. Hell, they even preserved anti-Christian letters of Julian the Apostate and just some monk has written something like "and here, he biasphemes" on the edge of it.
Actually, Christianity saved ancient knowledge for Europe, not destroyed it.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Oerdin


The golden age of Islam was the 9th through the 11th centuries. The Caliphate started to disintegrate after that. One reason why the Crusaders were able to defend the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem for 200 years was the weakness of the Islamic state. The Caliphate was a dying animal by the middle ages. Other Muslim Kingdoms would arise especially the Tamarinds in Persia and the Moguls in India/Afghanistan but the golden age of the Islamic Empire was gone.

I assume you mean "by the high middle ages"? At the start of the middle ages, Islam itself wasn't there.

Anyway, this doesn't much relate to whether the Islamic world was more ore less culturally and scientifically dynamic than Europe in the late middle ages (by which time the Caliphate simply didn't exist).

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

I assume you mean "by the high middle ages"? At the start of the middle ages, Islam itself wasn't there.

Anyway, this doesn't much relate to whether the Islamic world was more ore less culturally and scientifically dynamic than Europe in the late middle ages (by which time the Caliphate simply didn't exist).

the last Abbasid caliph died around 1535, there's much discussion about when exactly.
And there were other dinasties that claimed to be caliphs. also, Ottomans claimed that the last caliph transmitted his authority to them and as such, the caliphate existed up to 1923 or 4, I don't remember, when Atatuerk destroyed it.
Then, sharif of Mecca declared himself to be caliph in 1924, but in result Saudis attacked them and by 1925 all Higaz was conquered but the part that was annected by Transjordan.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Oerdin
DinoDoc, let me get this straight.

I found it more interesting than the crap you've been posting.