Let's talk about European antisemitism

[Meticulous Man]

I know two people who someone could consider anti-Semitic... one of them is a fascist who has photos of civil guardsmen executing Reds during the Finnish civil war on his walls, and the other is into conspiracy theories and is probably more of an anti-Zionist. The first guy also said that his favorite movies are "The Birth of a Nation", "Triumph of the Will" and "The Eternal Jew".

[Spiffor]

Edan:

Thanks for the articles. I noticed something about these articles (and about the first one posted by DanS), is that they are remarkably one-sided. Sometimes the division within the Jewish communities wrt antisemitism are mentioned, but I have never seen the other side actually speak out.

I have also noticed that there is no mention at all about society's reaction to antisemitism, except in an article where they say society at large doesn't care.

My question is: do you also get to read articles in the mainstream press that let the "other side" of the Jewish communities speak out? Do you get to read articles that speak about society's outrage against antisemitic scandals?

[Mr. Harley]

I know there are articles in the local Jewish congregational newspapers both pro-Israel, and articles about the peace movement and treating the Palestinians better. I'm not sure it those count for what you are looking for.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Brent
Why can't the Palestinians merge with surrounding Arab nations?

Why do You expect them to resign of their land for the benefit of Jews, who often expelled them ruthlessly from their homes? And, if You haven't noticed, it's not that easy. Palestinian refugees caused civil wars in Jordan and Lebanon.

Shouldn't the Jews have a land of their own?

If it means they have to steal it from someone else - no, they should not.
Israel is a fact, and history can't be turned back.
But zionism was a very egoistic movement, and creation of Israel a great mistake that caused almost 60 years of conflict in the region.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
I know there are articles in the local Jewish congregational newspapers both pro-Israel, and articles about the peace movement and treating the Palestinians better. I'm not sure it those count for what you are looking for.

Thanks, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for. I'm mostly interested int the American/Israeli view about Europe (not about Israel), in particular about antisemitism.

From what I gather so far, the reports that confort the image of European antisemitism get published, but there is little to no room for reports that go in the opposite direction.

[Zevico]

a great mistake that caused almost 60 years of conflict in the region.

I would argue that the 'great mistake' was the fact that Britain neglected the Arab masses it once ruled and allowed dictators to take them over. The Arab dictators then indoctrinated their people to hate Israel so as to not be so focussed on the inside of their country. This, in my opinion, would be a much bigger factor in the 60 years of conflict in this region--because it was openly encouraged by Arab dictators seeking to brainwash their people. It's worked rather well, actually, this propaganda that has been spouted by them--that Israel is the cause and not the excuse.

In my opinion, there is not so much 'new' European antisemitism. Antisemitism, like all racism, will unfortunately always exist. There are always going to be people with messed up minds or people so blind or ignorant as to accept racism. However, there is a definitely a sort of backlash against Israel, and perhaps Jews in general, over the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. For some this is perhaps a cheap emotional trick, something to make them feel less guilty about past wrongs committed by their ancestors. It stems mainly from a lack of knowledge about the situation there, and a willingness to accept the almost stereotypical 'story of opression' without looking any further. That is something understandable, almost---something easy to do, rather than thinking, just sympathising with what is the weaker side on a purely irrational and emotional level.

[alva]

Of the 15- to 18-year-olds polled, three-quarters say they do not see a future for themselves in France, and half have suffered from some form of anti-Semitism in the past five years.

I'm sure you'd get the same numbers for fat people, people wearing glasses, people with long hair, geeks, people who support Tottenham etc..

[Zulu Elephant]

My 14 year old sister thinks the Palestinians get the raw deal out of the situation. Is she antisemitic?

[Dr Strangelove]

I think that the Europeans tried to leave the Arab states in the hands of constitutional monarchies, but could not control what happened after independence. You also have to consider that many of the Arab nations had been protectorates, not full fledged colonies.

[Edan]

More Articles:

Forty-eight percent of Europeans polled in Italy, France, Belgium, Austria, Spain, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Germany, and Britain said that Jews have "a particular relationship with money."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1075114458901

The EU suppressed a report last year by German academics concluding that Arab gangs were largely responsible for a sudden surge in the anti-Jewish violence, allegedly because the findings were politically unpalatable.

link

A poll published Monday showed that Italians have mixed feelings about Israel and Jews, with 22 percent of those polled saying fellow Jewish citizens are not "real Italians," and 51 percent saying Jews have a different mentality and way of life from the rest of Italians.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1068446567110

Anti-Semitic feeling has been revealed in a poll in Italy which shows more than 46 cent of Europeans consider Jews to have "a different mentality" from the rest of the population.

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/story.jsp?story=485085

Originally posted by Spiffor
Edan:

I have also noticed that there is no mention at all about society's reaction to antisemitism, except in an article where they say society at large doesn't care.

My question is: do you also get to read articles in the mainstream press that let the "other side" of the Jewish communities speak out? Do you get to read articles that speak about society's outrage against antisemitic scandals?

Most of the reactions tend to come from politicians/leaders, and they tend to come in several flavors - that there is no antisemitism or that it's largely overblown, that there is anti-semitism, but that it's due to Israel (as if that is any kind of excuse for performing antisemitic acts in Europe), that it is caused by tensions from the muslim minority - which may be part of the truth, but it also ignores that polls show anti-semitic views amoung larger percentage that can be attributed to just the muslim minority - and that they are concerned by the anti-semitism and will work to combat it.

[Agathon]

If the Jews don't deserve to have a land of their own, why do the Arabs?

They don't qua being Arabs, but they do qua it belonging to them in the first place.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon

True, but the United States also "stole" land. As did Britan, and France, and Germany, and Russia, and Holland, and Spain, and Portugal, and China, and Japan, and Vietnam, and Greece, and Italy, and Turkey, just to name a few.

Yes, but it's no argument for one rapist to say: "there were 25 rapes in my city this year that I didn't do".

Anyway, how many of these constitute occupation with complete denial of civil rights?

All of them, probably.

[Agathon]

Shawn - best post in the thread.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Agathon

Recent Israeli actions? You mean like defending itself?

If you have the gall to call it that. I guess stealing other people's land could be interpreted that way, if you were insane and ignored the fact that Israel is in the wrong.

Or you could take New Zealand, where Mossad recently tried to illegally obtain New Zealand passports for its agents (presumably to help in nefarious activities).

Was the government of Israel genuinely sorry for risking the endangernent of travelling New Zealanders?

My arse they were... they acted as if it was somehow their right to come to our country and take advantage of us for their own ends.

That's why a large portion of New Zealanders think that the Israeli government are scum. And they're right... they are arrogant scum.

New Zealanders would know a thing or two about coming into an area and dominating the local population wouldnt they? You can bet your arse they do...

[dannubis]

Originally posted by DanS
A majority of Jews live in the US now. Very few live in Europe. I can only assume that many European countries have been relatively unwelcoming to Jews up to this point.

many muslem arabs live in europe right now. very few in the US. i can only assume that the US has been relative unwelcomming to arabs up to this point...



any chance of getting your head out of your arse in the near future ?