Schiavo Thread Part the Third

[Dis]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I find the extremists on both sides to be pretty distasteful. At least the pro-Terri nuts are fighting to save a life, though...

they are fighting to prolong torture

[Ned]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Ned - first of all, considering the states involved, average appointees, etc. I doubt that 21 of the minimum 40 judges involved are qualified as "liberal" judges. Heck, I doubt you can find more than a dozen who the liberals would consider as one of theirs.

Secondly, I have watched the tragic attempts of family to make the best out of terrible cases of brain damage. Some friends had a child who at 6 and 1/2 (she died at that age due to an accident related to her neurological impairments, there were other associated problems) still could not babble.

Yet the parents, who insisted on mainstreaming her, were trying to find that she was attempting to say "mama" out of her rythmic grunts. It was so sad, and none of use even tried to tell them how wrong they were, they were just trying to see some kind of hope out of a terrible situation. The man was part of my wedding party, these were not just casual friends.

After 10 to 14 minutes of no pulse, her brain is largely dead. Find me one cite, except in the cases of immersion in cold water, where after that much time the individual has not been severely brain damaged. Thank God, literally, that she is finally going on to whatever awaits her.

When did I ever say this was about liberal judges? I said the knock on Greer was that he was conservative and had no heart. Almost all the rest of the judges in this case are appellate judges who are simply following the law as they are largely bound by the facts as found by Greer.

It is interesting that when the case was temporarily assigned to another judge, the tube was ordered placed back in and things began to go the Shindlers way. Then the courts ordered the case reassigned by to Greer, and he again ordered the tube pulled. The problem here, the bias in favor of death, is Greer.

As to parents who invest hope in their brain dead child, who are we as a society to deny them access to their child. Who is being harmed? In the absence of very clear evidence that the victim did not want to live under such conditions, are we entitled as a society to put the child to death over the objections of the parents?

[Dis]

Originally posted by Ned


When did I ever say this was about liberal judges? I said the knock on Greer was that he was conservative and had no heart. Almost all the rest of the judges in this case are appellate judges who are simply following the law as they are largely bound by the facts as found by Greer.

It is interesting that when the case was temporarily assigned to another judge, the tube was ordered placed back in and things began to go the Shindlers way. Then the courts ordered the case reassigned by to Greer, and he again ordered the tube pulled. The problem here, the bias in favor of death, is Greer.

As to parents who invest hope in their brain dead child, who are we as a society to deny them access to their child. Who is being harmed? In the absence of very clear evidence that the victim did not want to live under such conditions, are we entitled as a society to put the child to death over the objections of the parents?

*ahem* she's not a child. Certain things happen in our society when they reach age 18 and marry.

If you don't like the laws, change them so parents gain custody of their children no matter what happens to them- not the spouse.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident


Ned, where are you getting your information? I need another good laugh today.

I've gotten a lot of the opinions and facts from this site. http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html On what people say on the air, I watch FOX, MSNBC and I heard the priest on ABC news tonight.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident


*ahem* she's not a child. Certain things happen in our society when they reach age 18 and marry.

If you don't like the laws, change them so parents gain custody of their children no matter what happens to them- not the spouse.

Really? The judge noted the obvious financial conflict of interest of Michael Schiavo. Further, after getting the malpractice award that was intended to be used to help Terri, Michael did nothing with the money for years. During that time, nurses said that he was very hostile to the continued existence of Terri, asking repeatedly when would that ***** die? He tried to kill her by withholding treatment when she had an infection. He reversed course when Terri's parent filed to revoke his guardianship. Years later, after doing nothing for Terri with the money, he aquires a new "wife." He then filed to terminate the life of Terri.

Now you tell me whether these are the actions of a person who has Terri's best interests at heart?

[Dis]

where are you getting this information from. I've heard none of it. And I don't believe any of these nurses.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
where are you getting this information from. I've heard none of it. And I don't believe any of these nurses.

I heard it from the nurses themselves. Now, as to your disbelief, why would they lie? Everyone else in this case has a motive to lie. The nurses clearly hate Michael Schiavo. But they have a reason to, don't they.

I also heard from a former friend of Michael's that he often said that he had no idea what Terri would have wanted. This was prior to his acquiring an intent to murder. Now, this testimony was not introduced at trial as Michael's testimony to the contrary is simply accepted while the testimony of Terri's friend that she wanted to live is dismissed.

Outrageous.

[Dis]

in any case it doesn't matter who is lying. the result is the same.

A chick who's brain is seriously ****ed. As I've said before. I don't give a **** if she's semi concious or in a PVS. She's a hopeless case either way.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
in any case it doesn't matter who is lying. the result is the same.

A chick who's brain is seriously ****ed. As I've said before. I don't give a **** if she's semi concious or in a PVS. She's a hopeless case either way.

No doubt this is true. But all she needs to stay alive is to be fed. She is not a burden on society. She is a joy to her parents who want to continue her life and to interrelate to her and to hope for new medical treatments that might provide hope.

Why are you and others like you so committed to killing Terri? What has she ever done to you?

[Dis]

not a burden?

The malpractice money has run out. The hospice is currently subsidizing her. They said they would discontinue that. This means the state would have to pay for her.

It's more than a little feeding tube. The Shcindlers and Michael Schiavo both tried to take care of her (when they were living in the same house before the falling apart), and were unable to do so.

There's things like her other physical problems. Many vaginal infections, constipation and many other physical ailments. Not to mention someone has to clean her, move her (to prevent bedsores), and remove her feces and urine.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Dissident
not a burden?

The malpractice money has run out. The hospice is currently subsidizing her. They said they would discontinue that. This means the state would have to pay for her.

It's more than a little feeding tube. The Shcindlers and Michael Schiavo both tried to take care of her (when they were living in the same house before the falling apart), and were unable to do so.

There's things like her other physical problems. Many vaginal infections, constipation and many other physical ailments. Not to mention someone has to clean her, move her (to prevent bedsores), and remove her feces and urine.

Sounds like a problem. But terminating a life because it is burdern to the state sounds a lot like what happened in Germany in 1939.

[Ned]

Also, Dis, why in the world would you deny the parents and her brothers and sisters the opportunity to take care of Terri to the best they are able. I am sure that she was moved back into professional care when they had the money to do so and that the inability to care for Terri was not the primary issue. I can tell you that from personal experience from my own family.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Further, after getting the malpractice award that was intended to be used to help Terri, Michael did nothing with the money for years.

In the Nedaverse, keeping a person hooked up to a feeding tube in the hospital only costs $1 a year! It's so nice not to have to pay to keep people hooked up to machines in hospitals these days! So very nice!

But terminating a life because it is burdern to the state sounds a lot like what happened in Germany in 1939.

BZZZT! BZZZT! GODWIN ALERT! BZZZT! BZZZT!

[Drake Tungsten]

In the Nedaverse, keeping a person hooked up to a feeding tube in the hospital only costs $1 a year! It's so nice not to have to pay to keep people hooked up to machines in hospitals these days! So very nice!

As opposed to the Imranverse, where Michael Schiavo spent every last penny on treatment for his wife, not on legal fees incurred in his fight to kill her...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

In the Nedaverse, keeping a person hooked up to a feeding tube in the hospital only costs $1 a year! It's so nice not to have to pay to keep people hooked up to machines in hospitals these days! So very nice!

As opposed to the Imranverse, where Michael Schiavo spent every last penny on treatment for his wife, not on legal fees incurred in his fight to kill her...

Once again... in Drakeverse, hospital fees are so cheap, that any Joe can keep someone hooked up for over 10 years! Not expensive at all!