Schiavo Thread Part Deux

[Ned]

Just now on Hannity & Colmes, Davie Bois (sp?), Gore's lawyer, said that the proceedings tonight before the District Court did seem to raise the proper issues for the first time: Whether Terry is actually in a PVS and whether she consented to removing of life support. According to Bois, a state is justified under Supreme Court authority to terminate life support if both conditions are true. According to Boise, the Shindlers presented evidence tonight that brought, for the first time, both issues into legal doubt. This, in his opinion, would justify a plenary review and would make the issuing of an order to preserve Terry's life mandatory in his view.

The district court judge has said he will work on his opinion through the night and will issue it ASAP.

[Drake Tungsten]

I don't know why this district court judge would seriously re-examine Judge Greer's finding of fact when none of the other judges have.

[Mr. Harley]

Imran - fresh from law school, understanding how the legal system should work.

Ned - jaded longtime lawyer, understanding how the system does work, and that judges at times can be a power unto themselves - until reviewed.

Repeating right wing conspiracy theory and looking at this case - while ignoring the fact that, as Medicaid is cut, people are going to die due to substandard medical care (which some of you may now understand is a really hot button for me).

Plus not acknowledging the fact we are rationing health care in the US, even if we don't acknowledge it, and that the huge amount of money spent on keeping someone alive in this state sucks up medical resources, i.e. for prenatal care for example - that could prevent dozens of cases like this in babies for the same amount of money. (don't claim that is not the case, Bush has been trying to cut WIC - women infant child nutrition program since his first budget)

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


The only reasonable explanation I can see for this, and that I would agree with were I in his situation, is that he deeply loves his wife and is fighting to the end to make sure her wishes are fulfilled and she does not live on in such a state.

Were I in his shoes, I'd do the exact same thing for someone I loved. I couldn't just say "**** it" and leave them to continue on that way.

What he said.

[DRoseDARs]

It's starting...

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...tion-headlines

Man Trys Steal Gun to 'Rescue Schiavo'

By Associated Press

March 25, 2005, 3:17 AM EST

SEMINOLE, Fla. -- A man was arrested after trying to steal a weapon from a gun shop so he could "take some action and rescue Terri Schiavo," authorities said.

Michael W. Mitchell, of Rockford, Ill., entered Randall's Firearms Inc. in Seminole just before 6 p.m. Thursday with a box cutter and tried to steal a gun, said Marianne Pasha, a spokeswoman for the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

Mitchell, 50, told deputies he wanted to "take some action and rescue Terri Schiavo" after he visited the Pinellas Park hospice where she lives, Pasha said.

The feeding tube that has kept Schiavo alive for more than a decade was removed March 18 over objections from her parents. Schiavo's husband has said his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially.

Doctors have said she would probably die within a week or two of the tube being pulled.

Randy McKenzie, the owner of Randall's Firearms, said Mitchell pulled out the box cutter and broke the glass on a couple of display cases.

"He told me if I wasn't on Terri's side then I wasn't on God's side, either," McKenzie told The Associated Press.

McKenzie said he then pointed his own gun at Mitchell and ordered him to lie on the ground. But Mitchell fled out the store's back door before police arrived, he said.

Mitchell was later arrested in a parking lot and was scheduled to appear in court Friday. He was being held on $125,000 bond on charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated assault and criminal mischief, officials said.

It was not known if he had a lawyer.

Seminole is about 5 miles west of Pinellas Park.

[Ned]

One of those Harvard Law professors, I can't recall his name, that appears so often on TV in discussing Con law described the legal landscape in a little more detail tonight. He said that states vary in the sufficiency of proof required to make the determination of a decision to die. Most states require a writing or something more than just the testimony of a single witness that is not corroborated in some fashion. Florida, however, does not. He says that he personally disagrees with Florida's law, saying that in his opinion that one needs more to put someone to death.

This raises the fascinating possibility that the constitutionality of the Florida level of proof itself may be at issue if properly raised in this case.

[Ned]

There is the corrolary issue on whether a state may put someone to death who has some consciousness and who does not require anything more than being fed to maintain life.

[Drake Tungsten]

Well, it's good to know that not every state has such a shockingly low threshold of proof required to authorize the state to kill a person. That's probably the most unbelievable thing about this case, to me at least. Hopefully such standards are limited to Florida and a handful of other states...

[Ned]

BTW, there was a bomb threat at the Florida courthouse during the Schiavo hearing tonight. I have also heard that there are threats against others involved in the case. Given the emotions stirred by the drama of the unfolding events, I would suggest that Judge Greer and Michael Schiavo need to be protected, at least for a time.

[Bosh]

Why, dear god why do people still care?

[Drake Tungsten]

I can't seem to shake this pesky conscience, despite my best efforts...

[Bosh]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
I can't seem to shake this pesky conscience, despite my best efforts...

All of her brain is jelly except for the stem. What difference does it make

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Naah, just had to deal with too many of 'em and deal with all sorts of regulatory horse**** in work.

I see. More of a barracks-room lawyer for now then

Pretty impressive though going to law school at your age. It was a big enough 'culture shock' for me when I'd just left the army (not law school, undergrad micro). I dont think I could stand it now. It'd be like living at poly OT.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The issue in most federal Habeas Corpus cases is the resolution of whether the petitionier's constitutional rights were violated.

Which is done in CRIMINAL cases, Ned. You aren't listening! Habeus corpus review does not apply in civil cases. Habeus corpus is a petition that you are being held unfairly. That doesn't apply to the civil side.

Congress has the POWER under Art. III to grant the same rights to people, like Terry, who are about to be put to death by a state abeit not through a criminal procedure.

Even if they did, Ned, READ THE LAW! It says nothing about allowing the Shindlers to bring a new suit on habeus corpus grounds. That would have probably had made a better argument than the crap law they passed, which was simply she can petition the federal court for civil rights violations (which is a federal law, applicable to civil cases, so that avenue was open to them before hand and they were denied).

Oh, and under Article III of the Constitution, Congress has the right to "ordain and establish" smaller federal courts and the right to set the salary of judges. It says nothing about increasing the jurisdiction... that is something that would be an Article I power.

[Mr. Harley]

Ned is pwnd.

And ask Ozzy about how he feels considering the powers of a legal guardian.