Unscientific survey of 'poly religious beliefs

[Whaleboy]

Occams razor neatly dissects God into fallacious little pieces

[Sava]

Occams razor is just a method of thinking... it's not a proven truth

You shouldn't rely on it to disprove the existence of God. IMO, using Occams razor is a weak argument. And I'd much rather see arguments against the existence of God be strong.

[Provost Harrison]

I'd rather see an argument for God using conclusive empirical evidence. As that does not exist it isn't possible to lend that hypothesis any credibility...

[child of Thor]

cutting edge science is full of it isn't it? dark matter, singularities, big bang etc? Atleast that stuff does make me think of a 'god' type thing.

[Moral Hazard]

Ad Hominem Time:
The last three athiest posters all have recently suffered from depression. I believe pointed this out is appropriate, stemming from my own experience that a belief in a higher power is healthy for our mental state. Flame away.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Dissident
I worship myself.

I am my own god.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Ad Hominem Time:
The last three athiest posters all have recently suffered from depression. I believe pointed this out is appropriate, stemming from my own experience that a belief in a higher power is healthy for our mental state. Flame away.

Whereas delusion is the opium of the masses, or something like that...

[Wycoff]

Nice sig MOBIUS... trying to get banned, are you?

[MOBIUS]

Thanks, I guess. No, why would I do that?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Nice try but since neither of the two of you have proven to be a god i dont think thats gonna fly

[Moral Hazard]

Whereas delusion is the opium of the masses, or something like that

Historically I always felt that statement was incorrect and thought that heavy drinking was more the opiate for the masses.

I might be deluded but I can't know that; and when it boils down to it, I really don't care if Im wrong. My belief works, which is all I can ask for.

[Whaleboy]

Originally posted by Sava
Occams razor is just a method of thinking... it's not a proven truth

You shouldn't rely on it to disprove the existence of God. IMO, using Occams razor is a weak argument. And I'd much rather see arguments against the existence of God be strong.

Partly yes and partly no. I was being overly flippant earlier, I should elaborate. In simple terms, in order to show something = true, you need to have valid positive arguments. Say you have your proposition, which is God. For God to = true, you need true arguments. Now I am aware of no argument for the existence of God that has not been thoroughly pwned, so unless I am wrong, there are no valid positive arguments.

What about valid negative arguments, needed to categorically disprove God? Well there are many, most that I know of have holes in them. I know of several that are watertight but they're kinda complex so we'll save that for a rainy day. Assume for the moment that there are no valid negative arguments.

So what are we left with? Nothing to swing *for* God, and nothing to swing *against*, so in this sense, God might exist. What Occams razor shows us is that the dialectic proposition "God might exist" translates as God = zero. As opposed to +1 = true, or -1 = false.

To introduce God violates Occams razor because it is unnecessary for any rational explanation of the universe, and there is no supporting evidence. I might as well invoke the wrath of the "triple breasted nun of Saggittarius", something self-evidently absurd and ficticious, and it has the same logical validity as God.

Now there is the uncertainty principle recourse but I think we can ignore this, both because it contradicts the supposed nature of God and it takes us back towards "God might exist", so God has a net value of zero.

Historically I always felt that statement was incorrect and thought that heavy drinking was more the opiate for the masses.

I might be deluded but I can't know that; and when it boils down to it, I really don't care if Im wrong. My belief works, which is all I can ask for.

The quote is meant to be "religion is the opiate of the masses". If your belief system works for you, then that's great, just discourage those of the same belief from forcing it on others. You seem to be pretty cool with it yourself so to that; it's not my place to tell you that something you've believed in all of your life is wrong, since you only have my sayso for that which only *has* to work for me.

The last three athiest posters all have recently suffered from depression. I believe pointed this out is appropriate, stemming from my own experience that a belief in a higher power is healthy for our mental state. Flame away.

Note that atheism doesn't mean lack of belief, of lack of faith. It simply means a belief that there is no theological God. It even allows for a belief in a "personal" God, nature worship or anything transcendental... a common mistake is when people call it "sciencism", or something completely devoid of spiritualism... that's a falsehood. I am not trying to oppose science and faith/spirit, it is my belief that science has a correct context and faith does too... rather like emotion for the latter.

However yes there are many atheists that reject spiritualism, either greatly or completely. Yes they are more likely to be depressed. That atheism could have negative consequences does not make it false, or even less desireable if it has the best claim to being true. It could well have positive consequences, be they intellectual, humanistic or creative.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Ad Hominem Time:
The last three athiest posters all have recently suffered from depression. I believe pointed this out is appropriate, stemming from my own experience that a belief in a higher power is healthy for our mental state. Flame away.

Most humans suffer from depression some time in their life. there is no such thing as a higher power. I think it is healthy, that we rely on family and friends, rather then an imaginary figure evil religionists come up with.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Ad Hominem Time:
The last three athiest posters all have recently suffered from depression. I believe pointed this out is appropriate, stemming from my own experience that a belief in a higher power is healthy for our mental state. Flame away.

1. you shouldn't post about things you know **** about
2. my depression is not recent
3. it also has nothing to do with my beliefs
4. I'm not an atheist, I'm agnostic
5. my devout Christian grandmother also suffered from depression, worse than mine
6. I'd rather be depressed than stuck in a dillusion

[St Leo]

Originally posted by child of Thor
But prove that there is not a divine creator or some such force in the universe. How did it all start. How does the universe that we know all come from nothing, scientificaly speaking?

If you don't mind, I'll quote something I wrote on a different forum just a few days ago.

Fifteen billion lightyears away is the edge of the universe. Beyond it, nothing exists. It is void. It is null. There is no notion of distance, because distance is an internal property of the universe.

Does anyone assert that God exists because all objects are contained in other objects, and therefore the Universe must need a Container? That God must be that Container? I have never heard it stated. No, the idea of something not being contained in anything else is easy to grasp. The Universe needs no Container. (Most likely that's because we habitually don't think of vacuum or even air as something.)

Similarly, fifteen billion years ago is another edge of the universe. Beyond it, nothing occurs. It is void and null. There is no time, because time is an internal property of the universe.

And yet people assert that the Universe needs a cause. Why? Cause and effect? sequence of events? Those are all the result of our internal interpretation of the passage of time. But there is no time outside the Universe. The notion of a cause is absurd.

The Universe is the ultimate cause just as much as it is the ultimate container. It is not sentient or teleological. It is mindless, and yet awesome. There is no purpose to its meanderings, but there is a bifurcating pattern. The Universe has no will. It is a tool. It is elaborate, by extremely simple too.

There is no Creator. There are no gods. Humans aren't gods either, and neither shall we ever evolve into them. We are just an edifice in the eddies of time and space. Not special and not accursed.