Judge rejects right-to-die delay

[Drake Tungsten]

Did you even read the article, Sava? If it's true that they've never even allowed an MRI on Terri Schiavo, then I would put no faith in the findings of the court and its experts...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Did you even read the article, Sava? If it's true that they've never even allowed an MRI on Terri Schiavo, then I would put no faith in the findings of the court and its experts...

By Reverend Robert Johansen

do you have one from Jerry Falwell too?

Sorry Drake. The fact is, Terri Schiavo suffered severe hypoxic brain damage. Her brain was without oxygen for 14 minutes. There's NOTHING THERE. It's only a miracle her body survived. She is brain-dead.

I wasn't going to post an Op-ed, but this one has the facts right.

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?
Eat, drink, and vegetate
Ronald Bailey



Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

link: http://www.reason.com/links/links102303.shtml

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Sava I would never in any way not honor tubes wishes however if his parents wanted to fight me Id like to think that i have no choice but to let them handle his care.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
Sava I would never in any way not honor tubes wishes however if his parents wanted to fight me Id like to think that i have no choice but to let them handle his care.

well the law says you get to make the decision regarding his care, god forbid anything happen...

[Drake Tungsten]

Whether she had an MRI or not is a fact that should be relatively easy to determine. If she hasn't, then there is no way that she should be killed at this point. How can the court make an educated decision on the condition of Terri Schiavo if they don't even have access to a standard scan of her brain? It boggles the mind, frankly...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Whether she had an MRI or not is a fact that should be relatively easy to determine. If she hasn't, then there is no way that she should be killed at this point. How can the court make an educated decision on the condition of Terri Schiavo if they don't even have access to a standard scan of the brain? It boggles the mind, frankly...

why do an MRI?

they did a CAT scan and an EEG... the EEG results were quite conclusive and consistent with someone who is in PVS

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Sava
well the law says you get to make the decision regarding his care, god forbid anything happen...

be that as it may Im not willing to accept that boulder on my own with out input from his family who have known him longer then me.

[Drake Tungsten]

why do an MRI?

Because it's modern medical technology? Why don't we just drill a ****ing hole in her head, examine her that way and call it good?

Some guardian Michael Schiavo has been. Had $750,000 to spend on his wife's care and couldn't even be arsed to give her a proper brain scan...

[Sava]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
be that as it may Im not willing to accept that boulder on my own with out input from his family who have known him longer then me.

well, that's your decision...

and Michael Schiavo has made his...

I happen to think we should respect the law and the findings of two courts in this matter.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

why do an MRI?

Because it's modern medical technology? Why don't we just drill a ****ing hole in her head, examine her that way and call it good?

Some guardian Michael Schiavo has been. Had $750,000 to spend on his wife's care and couldn't even be arsed to give her a proper brain scan...

are you purposely dense?

here: http://health.yahoo.com/ency/adam/003931/0

An electroencephalogram (EEG) is a test to detect abnormalities in the electrical activity of the brain.

Electroencephalogram; Brain wave test

Brain cells communicate by producing tiny electrical impulses. In an EEG, electrodes are placed on the scalp over multiple areas of the brain to detect and record patterns of electrical activity and check for abnormalities.

The test is performed by an EEG technician in a specially designed room that may be in your health care provider's office or at a hospital. You will be asked to lie on your back on a table or in a reclining chair.

The technician will apply between 16 and 25 flat metal discs (electrodes) in different positions on your scalp. The discs are held in place with a sticky paste. The electrodes are connected by wires to an amplifier and a recording machine.

The recording machine converts the electrical signals into a series of wavy lines that are drawn onto a moving piece of graph paper.

an MRI does not detect brain wave activity...

[Mrs. Tuberski]

I asked this earlier why doesnt he just let the family take care of her. Hes moved on got himself a gf and some kids now why does he stay with the fight?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
I asked this earlier why doesnt he just let the family take care of her. Hes moved on got himself a gf and some kids now why does he stay with the fight?

AFAICT, he's trying to fulfill Terri's wishes

[Drake Tungsten]

an MRI does not detect brain wave activity...

It does offer the most detailed scans of a brain available, though. Are you seriously saying that you can accurately determine a brain damaged patient's condition without access to quality scans of the brain? What am I saying? Of course you are...

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Sava
AFAICT, he's trying to fulfill Terri's wishes

And I think most are asking, I know i am are those terri's wishes.

[DanS]

I don't feel like arguing this, but suffice it to say that I think it's a sad and ominous day when the judicial system condones starving someone to death. I also wonder how medical professionals can discard their oaths and stand by while this is happening.