Why are American kids so dumb?

[Whaleboy]

rah

[GePap]

Personally, I think local control is part of the problem- in the US education is controlled by each state, and in most of them, real decisions are made at the local level. To me this is a waste of resources, as it creates multiple levels of adminsitration that are unnecessary, and leave one with uneven curriculums accross the country. At the same time, the current fed approach of unfunded mandates is crap, since if the feds want control, they should pony up the money too.

At the least, education needs to be centralized at the state level and Federal unfunded mandates need to end.

I think education is also too test centric- kids are taught to be good test takers- that does not mean actually being good students of learning the stuff. We need testing to guage progress, yes, but tests should be less often and more in depth. A ten question test that forces you to give real thought to each answer is better than a 60 question multiple choice test. Sure, it is harder to grade, takes more time and effrot, but gives a vastly better picture of real accomplishment and knowledge.

[chequita guevara]

I'd been in a number of different school systems, as I bounced around the country in the 70s. I saw numerous people held back, including one of my friends. We didn't have multitrack education (except for those students with learning disabilities), so exceptionally gifted students (like me) we forced to learn at the pace of the LCD students, when meant that not only couldn't I get a better education, but the one I did get bored me to tears to the extent that I became a problem student. I angered my teacheres cuz I would only put in the absolute minimum effort, wouldn't pay attention in class or do my homework, but still scored A's on my tests. I graduated in the bottom three, yet had the highest ACT and SAT scores in my school.

The problem is American schools aren't designed for educating students. They're designed to prepare students for work. Thus, a lot of what public schools are about are preparing students to deal with routine work and boredom. They definately do not want to teach students to think critically.

[Spiffor]

The US has not a terrible education, but an average one in comparison to other OECD countries. It's far superior than Greece's, for example.

European kids are not necessarily way better educated than American ones. European teaching systems vary immensely, and there are very different results. The Finns score extremely high (#1 or #2 in the wolrd] while the Greeks are among the lowest reviewed countries.

We shouldn't confuse our impression of child dumbness with the reality, because:
- a child will nearly always be "dumb", and we have forgotten how stupid we were at that age
- we often focus on a specific category of dumbasses, rather than on children in general.

I'm not saying there's no problem with the American educational system. It's castly inferior to what it could be. But you're not on third world levels yet.

[rah]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I'd been in a number of different school systems, as I bounced around the country in the 70s. I saw numerous people held back, including one of my friends. We didn't have multitrack education (except for those students with learning disabilities), so exceptionally gifted students (like me) we forced to learn at the pace of the LCD students, when meant that not only couldn't I get a better education, but the one I did get bored me to tears to the extent that I became a problem student. I angered my teacheres cuz I would only put in the absolute minimum effort, wouldn't pay attention in class or do my homework, but still scored A's on my tests. I graduated in the bottom three, yet had the highest ACT and SAT scores in my school.

The problem is American schools aren't designed for educating students. They're designed to prepare students for work. Thus, a lot of what public schools are about are preparing students to deal with routine work and boredom. They definately do not want to teach students to think critically.

Another example that makes my point. Motiviation. He used being bored as an excuse not to be motivated.

[chequita guevara]

And the school failed to motivate me. My folks weren't much help either. It's moronic that adults expect children to fix the problem. If children were capable of acting like rational adults, they wouldn't be children.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by rah
He used being bored as an excuse not to be motivated.

You do realize that's an oxymoronic statement, don't you. You cannot be both bored and motivated at the same time. They are opposites.

[el freako]

I think a key issue is that americans have less time to spend with their children than in most other countries.

Adult (those aged 15-59) 'free time' (i.e. that spent not sleeping or working) per schoolchild (those aged 5-14), USA=100%

USA = 100%
Japan = 147%
Germany = 144%
France = 127%
Britian = 113%
Italy = 162%
Canada = 115%

[Sava]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
And the school failed to motivate me. My folks weren't much help either. It's moronic that adults expect children to fix the problem. If children were capable of acting like rational adults, they wouldn't be children.

[Whaleboy]

I sometimes think a solution to the education crisis in the US and UK is the reinstatement of corporal punishment and much stronger parenting.

Bill Cosby

[Ben Kenobi]

Americans on average recieve more schooling then anyone else in the world.

Must be in only the blue states though, and not the red ones.

After all, we know for sure, that the only educated people in the US live on the coasts.

[Jon Miller]

Oregon is the state that had their school year cut short by a month

JM

[Odin]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Must be in only the blue states though, and not the red ones.

After all, we know for sure, that the only educated people in the US live on the coasts.

Minnesota is on the coast? Since when?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ever been to Duluth?

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Sikander


Oh there's no doubt that the quality of teachers has gone down since the 1950s. They're more educated, but the value of that education has diminished greatly. Moreover they aren't as intelligent / simply not the best and brightest on the whole. Back when teaching was one of the few professions that women were allowed to pursue the women who today are doctors, professors, lawyers etc. were often teachers. If we want that quality again we're going to have to pay dearly, or re-enslave women.

I'm not sure I agree with that theory but I can see where you are going with it.

I'm all for it for paying teachers more money. Teachers should be a prized profession. Now nobody wants to do it and those that are in it tell people not to go into it.

The problem with blaming teachers is this:

They are already burned out. Their work day has increased, they have been disempowered by administrator programs, and (despite what has been portrayed here), their accountability in every facet of what they are trying to do has gone WAY UP. They also have spend hours and hours just to do paperwork. Their time is spent doing so many other things other than teaching

The bottom line is that blaming teachers is a silly argument. It reminds me of the whole, "welfare mothers who have another kid to get another check," argument. These people for the most part are there because they want to make a difference, there are no more or less "bad seeds" in the group than any other profession.

But adding another layer of accountability to an already burned out group of professionals is just making things worse. It's just "one more thing," they have to worry about.

Take a little bit longer view Ted. Everyone of my grandmother's siblings (all 9 of them) had to quit school during the depression in order to work. Otherwise they'd starve. Malnutrition was rife at that time, and not uncommon until rather recently. In the earlier part of the 20th century the immigration rates were staggering, which meant that there were huge numbers of kids who didn't speak english as their first language compared to today. The average level of education of the parents of schoolchildren was also quite low. And don't think that there weren't plenty of other social problems back then as well. Substance abuse, abandonment, incest etc. were all going on, but no one went to spill their guts to Montel about it.

But the Depression was a one time event that affected every facet of life in a negative way.

I'm talking post depression era, when the public school system was in it's prime, during the 50s and 60s when public schools had been built in most areas of the country. Kids mostly had 2 parents watching out for them, and parents weren't so busy with other things, as one of the Euros mentioned. Nowadays you are lucky if half the kids have 2 parents watching out for them, and even if you do, they are usually busy doing things like working to get the level of involvement that kids need.

In such a case, "teaching to the test" would also be teaching the curriculum, which is the point of the whole thing in the first place.

Ideally, it should be, but that's not often what happens. Basically the kids are getting crammed at an accelerated pace, and at a high level. They aren't getting the concept behind what they are learning. Sometimes the thinking patterns you are learning are way more important than the end result.