Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar

Locally: Brumbies 22 -d- Stormers 19

Another gutsy effort from a seriously undermanned Brumbies outfit. They lost yet another backrower on the day of the game, taking the field with #s 11, 12, 14 and 15 with about six caps between them, and a bench loaded with debutants. The key to these gutsy, undermanned wins has been leadership. The likes of Larkham and Finegan are playing outstanding rugby themselves while both guiding and protecting the youngsters.

Clyde Rathbone, typically, was a Bok target. Thug centre DeWet Barry reached new lows. Warned for a high tackle, yellow-carded for a trip off the ball, he clobbered Rathbone with a high tackle off the ball that removed Rathbone from the field with a throat injury. Barry seems to have got away with it.

Didn't get to see that one. Fox Sports World has changed its name to Fox Soccer Channel and is only showing one S12 game a week! More proof that the US is sinking into barbarism...

So far I've seen Brumbies v Crusaders, Crusaders v Chiefs, and Chiefs v Blues; in all of which the team I wanted to win lost.

Next week I'll get to see Blues v Crusaders. Hopefully the lads can come back from the loss to the Chiefs. At least it'll be a home match for them..

The Hurricanes are doing rather well so far. All their games have been away and they've managed to win them all.

This "racial slur" business is a bit pathetic isn't it? Did Booi go home and cry to Mummy? awww...time to grow up. I'm not condoning whatever was said, but part of being a secure, emotionally strong person means being able to rise above these sorts of things without making an issue of it. "Look at me everyone! Someone called me a bad word!"

By the way...I have ot avoid this thread most of the time because I have to wait till Tuesday night to see the S12 game that was played a few days ago.

[Havak]

But we don’t list that many S12 results – it’s fairly safe to pop by.

Thus far, Ulster have declined to comment.

Well in all honesty it is not their business. I think it unlikely they will withdraw the contract because of it. We all make mistakes – if only he had kept colour out of it.

Such things are unacceptable of course – but Caligastia has a good point. We live in a world where massive over reaction occurs to such things. RSA does not have a good history with how it treats it own coloured players (remember the incidents leading up to the RWC) so to complain about an Australian making a racist comment seems a little bizarre.

The problem is that had this player made a racial comment about Plank (i.e. that his racial heritage owes much to Tolkien’s Orcs) absolutely nothing would have come from it.

As for the two players still pursuing Grey – are they insane? Do they think Plank confessed to cover a team mate? What motive would they rationalise for his so doing? Weird!

The jersey! The jersey!

But I don’t automatically assuming all those in wattle are Aussies!! Mind you that is because often they are not.

I haven't seen much to suggest they can beat a confident Wales.

Well traditionally that is when Ireland are most dangerous – they were in poor fettle right before beating Australia back in 2002. They are due a good game and this is the stage for it. That they would break Welsh hearts would simply be the icing on the cake. The bottom line is if they find form they are in a different class to Wales still – next year may be different as this Irish side is where England were in 2003 – lots of 30 plus year olds in the 22.

Wales have a younger squad and if they keep improving may become quite special – but right now they are going to be lucky Slammers rather than comprehensive ones.

And I hope they do for one reason – Gavin Henson. Not since the early days of AH have I seen such an out of control ego. One good game against England does not make a career – and talk of him making the Lions side scares me ******** when Tindall is far more suited to face the All Blacks. Henson has had three quiet games since doing well against England – he needs to step up to the plate again.

Silver and Gold Boots, Salon crafted and coloured hair and bottled orange tan. He might be a good player but he needs to lose all this crap before he will gain my respect long term. But then the vain Girlies bother me at the best of times.

I think so.

I actually don’t really buy that player power idea. I think there is something more fundamentally wrong at the club above the level of Coaches and Players – at committee level. If Wells was encouraged to go I suspect it was from above (Wells for example has never criticised Deano following that debacle – the two were good friends – and that will not have sat well).

I suspect you are right in that he thought the timing best from every point of view.

Your coach and the ex-interim skipper with a broken thumb would do well to watch tapes of the matches to see leadership at work.

I fear that neither would understand the lesson.

They are, on the whole, a very welcoming mob. I'm counting on it anyway!

You’ll be fine – if they coped with us how much better will it be for a (very) light drinker with a decent grasp of the lingo?

Suffice it to say, I prefer the Italian way.

Worrying signs that this may change though – all the late opening bars in Genoa were geared to youngsters and students and were the most English in nature being focused purely on the drinking.

I too like the Italian way – but on tour I need my late drinking pit stops as well.

You travel with heathens!

I call them the “old farts” and the name suits them well.

The only whites we had were house whites when we ate. I have both names stored in my phone and plan to hunt down a bottle or two of either for Easter.

I wondered how these accidents don't happen more often with the brute force energy that's expended.

I’m just grateful they are so infrequent. I saw one serious neck injury in my time when a hooker was driven into the ground with considerable force when a scrum collapsed – not pleasant but thankfully he recovered (chose to retire though – and who can blame him!).

Jaco Van Der Westhuyzen chose to stay in Japan. Rumour on this is that Tigers had refused to guarantee him the ten shirt saying he would rotate with Goode. Good call in that case – it never works when you let players insist on guaranteed starts?

In better news Daryl Gibson has signed another two year deal for us – after a slow start Daryl has really done a job for us over the last 18 months.

Strangely we are also loaning two young forwards to NZ for six months – James Hamilton and Luke Abraham. Both have first team time this year and Hamilton is a 22 year old lock – comparisons are being made to another tigers lock who spent a loan spell in NZ and came back to make quite a mark.

Abraham is a loose forward converted to hooker but covering our back row crisis right now- and scored our winning try as recently as last Friday.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
But we don’t list that many S12 results – it’s fairly safe to pop by.

I could post my TV schedule, but sometimes I don't get to see the game until a couple of days after they show it. And Finbar would have to swear on his dog's life not to post any spoilers.

Such things are unacceptable of course – but Caligastia has a good point. We live in a world where massive over reaction occurs to such things.

I guess some people never heard of "mauls and tackles may break my bones but names can never hurt me."

The problem is that had this player made a racial comment about Plank (i.e. that his racial heritage owes much to Tolkien’s Orcs) absolutely nothing would have come from it.

That is one of the major problems with making a fuss over racial slurs - standards will never be applied equally. Not only that, but it creates an environment in which false accusations may become a tempting option. All it really is is just bickering over name calling. If players want to say nasty things to one another then that's their problem. Getting other people involved is just a waste of time.

[LDiCesare]

Italy 13 - 56 France.
A good match from the French, except for two periods, one when they got countered and suffered an 80 metres try, and the other when Dominici went out. I hope the Italian prop will get fired for at least 1 year. For those who didn't see it, he just punched Dominici in the fact when another Italian was also late-tackling him. Grrr. Dominici had been excellent and led to 2 tries in the first 20 minutes of the match. Spreadbury, who was touch judge, also showed his utter lack of skill when saying Heymans went in touch when he obviously didn't, thus leading to a refused try. Poor Heymans, he's been very good and his try hasn't been allowed. The Italians really need a backline and to stop their foul play.

Wales 32 - 20 Ireland.
Sorry Havak. The Irish managed to stuff their match in a way that's truly bizarre. They had much better conquest in the early game and didn't manage to do anything with it. Then O'Gara started playing badly, not using his kicks as efficiently as he usually does. Humphreys replaced him and impulsed a little good to the team, but it was too late. I don't know what the Irish had, but they didn't play up to their value.
About Henson, I agree the guy is both good and overrated. I think Shanklin is the better Welsh center for instance. Haven't seen Tindall for a while, but I think he's better too on past performances. Henson defends well and can kick from far. So does Traille in France and it was only chance if he played today. A bit of a pity since Traille was so promising, but then we have Jauzion, Baby, Marty, Grandclaude... I think we can be happy that we found a few very good young centers here.

I guess the English game is played now, but for some reason, the TV here decided to show the game only this night, at around 2 AM. Anyone has an idea why such a great match is postponed to so late?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Because it's a play-off for 4th place and nobody cares much.

[LDiCesare]

Because it's a play-off for 4th place and nobody cares much.

Of course, that was just a bait for Havak to try and find a spurious reason why someone who is neither English nor Scot would want to look at the game. Why I'm considering staying awake till 2 AM to watch it, even though I am utterly exhausted (playing on friday evenings means you eat and drink till quite late and don't sleep much) amazes me. Maybe I don't like sleeping.

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Italy 13 - 56 France.
A good match from the French, except for two periods, one when they got countered and suffered an 80 metres try, and the other when Dominici went out. I hope the Italian prop will get fired for at least 1 year. For those who didn't see it, he just punched Dominici in the fact when another Italian was also late-tackling him. Grrr. Dominici had been excellent and led to 2 tries in the first 20 minutes of the match. Spreadbury, who was touch judge, also showed his utter lack of skill when saying Heymans went in touch when he obviously didn't, thus leading to a refused try. Poor Heymans, he's been very good and his try hasn't been allowed. The Italians really need a backline and to stop their foul play.

Gee, you French are a perverse lot. Needing to win by 41 (or whatever it was), you take two kicks for goal in the second half for a miserable three points each! You got to the 41 (or whatever it was) in the end, but it was a close go.

I agree about the Dominici incident. I didn't see a replay, but it looked an Italian hit him with a swinging high arm from behind with another Italian coming from the front.

Wales 32 - 20 Ireland.
Sorry Havak. The Irish managed to stuff their match in a way that's truly bizarre. They had much better conquest in the early game and didn't manage to do anything with it. Then O'Gara started playing badly, not using his kicks as efficiently as he usually does. Humphreys replaced him and impulsed a little good to the team, but it was too late. I don't know what the Irish had, but they didn't play up to their value.

Yes, sorry Havak. I was right. Apart from ten minutes in the second half, the Irish played up to the same crap standard they have for the whole tournament. They're not a better team than Wales. They're undisciplined and they rely far too much on O'Driscoll (whose leadership, I have to say, is lacking). I have no idea what O'Gara thought he was doing for much of the match. Wales deserved the win. They're a very promising rugby team.

As an unbiased observer, having watched all but a couple of the 6N matches, I thought France and Wales were the picks by a margin. Even though Wales beat France, I'd rank the French ahead because they can do everything Wales do just as well, and much more besides. Of course, France can also lose concentration, or switch off, or whatever it is that happens.

About Henson, I agree the guy is both good and overrated. I think Shanklin is the better Welsh center for instance.

I think Henson is very talented, but one of those flashy players who will be devastating in one match and go missing in another. Shanklin works harder and will probably, through persistence, end up more productive and effective.

So does Traille in France and it was only chance if he played today. A bit of a pity since Traille was so promising, but then we have Jauzion, Baby, Marty, Grandclaude... I think we can be happy that we found a few very good young centers here.

I think you've found some very exciting young talent. That young black flanker who was named man of the match looks the goods, too.

I guess the English game is played now, but for some reason, the TV here decided to show the game only this night, at around 2 AM. Anyone has an idea why such a great match is postponed to so late?

It wasn't shown live here either. There was a replay 8 hours later. I assume because, with the competition already decided, the telecasters didn't think it was important enough.

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
Of course, that was just a bait for Havak to try and find a spurious reason why someone who is neither English nor Scot would want to look at the game. Why I'm considering staying awake till 2 AM to watch it, even though I am utterly exhausted (playing on friday evenings means you eat and drink till quite late and don't sleep much) amazes me. Maybe I don't like sleeping.

Luckily the replay was in the late morning here. I thought it was entertaining, particularly in the second half when it seemed to turn into a Sevens match. England won, as they were always going to, but against the sort of defence Scotland mounted in the first half, I could have outscored Noon. Scotland's effort was a re-run of their game last week against Wales. Utterly abysmal defence and crap rugby in general in the first half, followed by a second half of (by comparison) some strong defence and (by comparison) strong attacking rugby. What's wrong with this Scotland team? They're obviously talent-challenged in some areas, but you have to wonder about Matt Williams' coaching.

And who was the commentator talking up the Scotland full back as Lions material? He's obviously a very damaging attacking runner but his defence is abysmal. Witness his pathetic attempt to stop one of Noon's tries.

Being a replay, there was no post-match information. England's injury situation wasn't looking too good.

[finbar]

I thought we played some very good rugby in patches in the early games and we've capped it off today
Andy Robinson,
England coach

[LDiCesare]

I agree about the Dominici incident. I didn't see a replay, but it looked an Italian hit him with a swinging high arm from behind with another Italian coming from the front.

Exactly.

That young black flanker who was named man of the match looks the goods,

That's Yannick Nyanga. He's really good indeed. He's still young but has very thorough skills,with good vista, great skills in lineouts, solid at keeping the ball, and running everywhere.
I didn't stay up to watch the England match. From what I read, they did the same as against Wales. That's not surprising. Robinson's comments aren't surprising either.

[MOBIUS]

BEST. PARTY. EVER!!!

I was there! Well, in the park in front of city hall anyway - the pic is a pic of the big screen in city hall showing the crowd in the park!

Whatever people say about the Welsh side, they are a young team on the upswing - it was only 2 years ago they 'won' the wooden spoon and just at the end of last year they almost beat South Africa and New Zealand. So watch this space...

What will happen however is that teams will figure out more effective strategies to playing Wales and that bugbear of expectation might cause the team to implode - people are already talking of Wales winning the next Rugby World Cup here...

Rugby is to Wales what Empire is to England...

Anyway, Wales won the 6N and nothing can take that from us, so

[MOBIUS]

PIC

[spartak]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
people are already talking of Wales winning the next Rugby World Cup here...

Bollocks. No chance. The next world cup is going to the Southern hemisphere and looking at the current AB side, I wouldn't like to bet against them lifting the trophy again.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by spartak


Bollocks. No chance. The next world cup is going to the Southern hemisphere and looking at the current AB side, I wouldn't like to bet against them lifting the trophy again.

Exactly! That's how much expectation this team will suddenly be saddled with - anything other than crushing victories will now be heavily criticised by the armchair general old boyos.

Just like the tory blue rinse brigade who still think that the UK has an empire...

[finbar]

Who knows where the rugby world will be in two years time? With the talented youth on display in the French side, they should be very hard to beat at home. I say should, because sometimes they can be their own worst enemies.

Wales? Very promising. Great spirit. They're going to need more to their game than running wizardry in broken play. Other teams will work them out? It happened more than once in this tournament. It's not rocket science. Deprive them of the ball. Don't deliver it to their back three with aimless kicks. Trouble is, no opposition team was able to do it consistently enough. I suspect one has to play the current Wales team the same way one has played the All Blacks of recent times - get into their faces, manage possession via strong discipline, and, most importantly, DON'T give the ball to their back three on a platter.

England? Speed and skill out wide, but getting the ball out there is a laborious, predictable process. They need a strong, creative playmaker and a creative, aggressive midfield to service the skills out wide. The current lot are too timid and unsophisticated.

Ireland? Apparently retirement will take its toll on the current team. They were my biggest disappointment of the tournament. Undisciplined, sloppy, relying far too much on O'Driscoll. I don't know how good or how strong their juniors are.

Scotland? Proved they can play some strong half-hours of rugby so they're not entirely hopeless. Exactly why they can't play more than than half an hour of strong rugby is beyond me.

Italy? A strong pack does not a team make. Their recruiting officer should be on the first plane to South Rome/North Auckland for some more talented stranieri.