Europe - Thy Name is Cowardice?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
It should be poointed out that when England and France decided to appease Germany in 1939 they immediately began to rebuild their neglected militaries.

They sold the Czechs down the river in '38. At that time France, the Czechs, and the Poles could have boxed Hitlers ears royally, even without any Brits. Instead, Chamberlain and the French collapsed.

For their pains, a great part of the Panzer divisions that dismembered Poland in '39, and France a year later were equipped with what were the very excellent Czech tanks of the time. Here's a clue, Czechoslovakia didn't sell them to Germany.

There are very good reasons why Munich and Chamberlain will live for a very long time as synonyms for cowardice in the English language.

[notyoueither]

Re: Re: Europe - Thy Name is Cowardice?

Originally posted by Spiffor
If anything, hitler's rise to power wasn't due to appeasement, but to the arrogance of the Versailles treaty. It's not appeasement that has costed the lives of millions, but the murderous tendencies of hitler. The war might have been won more quickly if Britain and France declared war sooner, but it's not like hitler was defenseless in 1938. And it's not like hitler wouldn't have started the holocaust.

Might? Hilter had no kind of army, navy or airforce to win in '38 if Chamberlain and Daladier had actually stood up. Half his tanks came from the Czech arsenal, fer Christs sakes!

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
This letter is a pathetic pile of crap.

But was it written by a prominent German, or is it a hoax? I'd like to know.

There are parts that read as if it were written by a Yank on a rant, and then there's things I wouldn't expect a Yank to bring up.

If it were written by a Euro, it is good to know they are not all good little autobots under Spiffor's control. Hi Spiff. Love you.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Berzerker
The reason its such a mess in the ME is because of dictatorships the west propped up.

I assume with "West" you mean "USA", right?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither
If it were written by a Euro, it is good to know they are not all good little autobots under Spiffor's control.

And that's not for lack of trying

[Harovan]

The name of the Axel Springer CEO is Dr. Mathias Döpfner. It would be wise to look up some details before sending propaganda crap around.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


I assume with "West" you mean "USA", right?

Actually, most of the mess was created by France and the UK, but then not having been invited to have colonies anywhere that mattered that might be lost in Germany.

[notyoueither]

Does anyone have any anti-nasty pills? I seem to have run out.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by notyoueither

But was it written by a prominent German, or is it a hoax? I'd like to know.

There are parts that read as if it were written by a Yank on a rant, and then there's things I wouldn't expect a Yank to bring up.

If it were written by a Euro, it is good to know they are not all good little autobots under Spiffor's control. Hi Spiff. Love you.

Henryk M. Broder, well,
he is an author, who writes books and editorials.

He is seen as very controversial and well known to criticize everyone and everything around

Is he a prominent german?
Well known among intellectuals in germany I think,
but well known as someone whose opinion you should take with a grain of salt

[Harovan]

Originally posted by notyoueither
But was it written by a prominent German, or is it a hoax? I'd like to know.

Given the fact, that they can't even spell the name of the author correct (and no, there is no way an ö could be transcribed into an a), I hear the hoax bell ringing loud.

By the way, what 4 weeks of paid vacation does the article mention? I would quit my company in a heartbeat if my vacation were reduced to that.

[notyoueither]

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Actually, most of the mess was created by France and the UK, but then not having been invited to have colonies anywhere that mattered that might be lost in Germany.

AFAIR it where the USA who supported Saddam during the 80s (and gave him WMDs) and who trained and equipped the Taliban (and Osama bin Laden) to counter the sowjet occupation of Afghanistan.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
AFAIR it where the USA who supported Saddam during the 80s and who trained and equipped the Taliban (and Osama bin Laden) to counter the sowjet occupation of Afghanistan.

True, but much of the mess is the ME has older roots than that, with France and Britain dividing the territory and playing Risk in 1918. Pretty much all the territorial disputes in the ME since then (and there have been quite a few) can be traced directly to the colonial powers.

[Atahualpa]

HA! Basically this formulated in my mind as well and in a post in the Arnie thread. I think this guy definately got a point!
I agree that he makes some strange assumptions and the article is rather emotional than rational, but still THIS is the first important step into a new Europe!!

I agree with him that Europe is just stunned. It's foreign politics are that of minimal intervention, we try to do as little as possible, because we are absolutely unsure about ourselves. We've had a long history wars, bombs and fights. I can agree when someone says that we are tired about it.
But some still have the will to fight and mostly this is seen as dangerous, because we might turn back into a nazi regime and EVERYBODY (politicians) is constantly afraid of this and the people feel this. I think this is just one reason why the NPD in germany is getting popular again.

Making this worse, the US pushes forward everytime, but their resulting situations are not one to be desired, thus proving Europeans right that the US way is wrong.

Now, first I agree that currently it wouldn't be good doing large international interventions if you are unsure about yourself, the whole intervention might cripple due to internal crisis. BUT, at some point we have to face this, we need stronger politics and speak a common language to the outside world.
There is always the argument that we'd do stuff diplomatically and that we are successful therein. But that's just not true and nobody does anything diplomatically. Why don't we host talks between israel and palestinia??? We search for diplomatic solutions, but it was Clinton who tried it. Basically this is just a damn execuse.

And overall I really hope we don't do anything with America on our side. And especially not the current America that is ruled by trigger happy military and a dumbass president, who just ****s up wherever he can. The US just tries to divide Europe and they are fine with us when we are stunned, because they can use this situation for themselves. They are not going to help us!
Europe can expect NOTHING of America, just like America expects nothing of us anymore.

Anyway, I am glad someone brings this point to the public It's very important to do some thinking about the situation of Europe in the world and overcome our past.
There will be of course heavy resentments against this development, but the move has just started and nobody can hold it back! Hooray!

[Last Conformist]

Why don't we host talks between israel and palestinia???

How about, the Israelis and Palestinians don't want us to?

(I'm getting exceedingly tired with the whole Israel/Palestine thing, BTW. Can't we just carpet bomb the place and hand over the ruins to Syria? They could grow dates there or something.)