What if...? The Armada

[yaroslav]

Hi! I have a idea: to start a serie of threads tittled "What if?..." The first thing is the Armada. Do you think that a better leadership could mean that the Armada actually land in England? Was actually necesary a attack to England?

Pardon for my bad english

[Jay Bee]

Yes, it was necessary.

What would have happened? Nothing. Nothing at all. The Tercios would have left England and things would have continued much the same. Imperial Spain had several times the opportunity to knock out France once for ever and never did it. It's mostly a conduct code, I think. Hard to understand for a foreigner, quite easy for us, I think.

[kIndal]

Re: What if...? The Armada

I believe that Armada´s admiral are good, of course that Bazan had been better but well, Medina Sidonia and Farnesio were a good ones.

The main fault was caused by Philip II that planned very bad the action, he left a lot of things to God´s provindence and confused both of their commanders. Farnesio didn´t know he had to make militar ships s they only was able to leave Flemish coast when Medina had won a naval combat.

A importnat problem was the horrible comunications of this age...what had happened if they had had a movil phone

[kIndal]

Re: Re: What if...? The Armada

Yes but if Spain had defeated English, the catholicism had been re introduced, gained one more time a ally and Ducth revolt had lost their main European support. Spanish Tercios fulled of victorys proud had defeated Dutch easily...and more troops to defend other fronts.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
It's mostly a conduct code, I think. Hard to understand for a foreigner, quite easy for us, I think.

Yes. Charles I could invade France when he captured Francisco I (How do you say Francisco in English? in Pavia. But he didn't wat. He thinked that it wasn't correct.

(Other good thread: What if Charles I invades France? )

[Jay Bee]

Yeah, and later the German Tercios... uhm Spanish, thrashed the French army twice under Philip II and nothing was accomplished. The French rose again, and again. ressilient people these Frenchies. Admirable people. Sometimes nasty, but admirable.

[kIndal]

(Other good thread: What if Charles I invades France? )

Haven´t youplayed my Carolus Scenario????

it is Francis I

[Waku]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
Yes, it was necessary.

Why?

[Waku]

Re: What if...? The Armada

Originally posted by yaroslav
Do you think that a better leadership could mean that the Armada actually land in England?

I'm not quite aware of the number/kind of vessels Spain sent to Britain but as far as I know they were mainly intended to "transport" land troops which were supposed to fight once they were ashore.

So the fiasco was due to a lack of scort ships, probably because Philipp II and his advisors underestimated the English navy and didn't take into account the weather factors.

The invasion was wrongly planned in Madrid (or wherever )

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Re: Re: Re: What if...? The Armada

Originally posted by kIndal
Yes but if Spain had defeated English, the catholicism had been re introduced, gained one more time a ally and Ducth revolt had lost their main European support. Spanish Tercios fulled of victorys proud had defeated Dutch easily...and more troops to defend other fronts.

Best not let Ribannah hear of this post! You'd learn how the Dutch would actually have turned fierce, kicked out the Spaniards, conquered England, and then brought all of Iberia under it's control.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
The French rose again, and again. ressilient people these Frenchies.

Yes, they have had many opportunities to rise again!

[kIndal]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What if...? The Armada

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq
Best not let Ribannah hear of this post!

No comments about this person, I have no consideration with a person who doesn´t respect the other person ideas.

[Jay Bee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What if...? The Armada

Originally posted by Marquis de Sodaq

Best not let Ribannah hear of this post! You'd learn how the Dutch would actually have turned fierce, kicked out the Spaniards, conquered England, and then brought all of Iberia under it's control.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Waku

Why?

Two reasons spring to my mind.

1. The assassination of Mary, Queen of Scots, Catholic

2. The English acts of piracy in the Caribbean. Drake even destroyed a few ships that were stationed in Cadiz (Though I do not remember well if that was before or after the Armada)

Spain was at that time like USA is now. She had to respond somehow to actions deemed to be irrespectful to the international & Pope's law

[kIndal]

2. The English acts of piracy in the Caribbean. Drake even destroyed a few ships that were stationed in Cadiz (Though I do not remember well if that was before or after the Armada)

Before it, this was one of the causes the Armada sailed some time later.