HRE NES

[Cyclotron]

If the mine is created this turn, you will get the benefits this turn. If the mine is not finished this turn, you may need to pay more, or you may just need to wait another turn. Your workers will tell you what is needed in the update, if the mine is not completed. The more money you spend on a project, the more likely it is to be completed on time, but obviously it becomes more expensive.

Smaller things like mines are generally completed within two turns; it will either be done this turn or the next. Building larger things like Cathedrals or stone walls can take more turns, but use the same general principle.

[appleciders]

So basically, shut up and wait for the update. Got it.

[Cyclotron]

[Cyclotron]

As long as I'm correcting appleciders:

10 denarii to hire prospectors to go out and look for new mineral resources, especially stone.

10 denarii to scouting and research and the like about the state of the Magyar armies.

While these are both good and feasible ideas, they are a bit underfunded. This will buy you, say, 10 spears - wholly inadequate to fund either an effective espionage campaign or prospecting venture. I'm going to say that, generally speaking, nothing worthwhile can be accomplished without at least 50 denarii or so - anything less is really chump change when we're talking on a duchy or kingdom level.

Of course, as with most things, the more you spend, the better your info / the more complete your prospecting reports are likely to be.

Stone is one of the easier mine products to find, though, so at least that is on your side.

[appleciders]

Fair enough. Get Foolish back in here!

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Burchard of Swabia
I have need of some of your excess iron. I could trade you 120 denarii worth of tin for 100 denarii of your iron. Unfortunately, I will probably only require this trade until my iron mine in Carinthia is completed. Are you interested? Once I have built my mine, I may be able to trade for your copper instead of your iron.

Duke Arnulf of Bavaria to Duke Spytihnìv I of Bohemia
I wish to emphasize that I am no longer at peace with the Magyars. Call off your raids, and take this opportunity to strike back at the Magyars for their transgressions!

[Cyclotron]

Duke Burchard of Swabia to Duke Arnulf of Bavaria
I am wary of giving arms to a Duke whom, mere days ago, was a sworn enemy of the Crown and a rebel against King Conrad's authority. I will consider your request if the King thinks it wise; I have insufficient reason to trust you at present.

Duke Spytihnìv I of Bohemia to Duke Arnulf of Bavaria
Do you seriously think I lead these raids into your lands? My country teems with poor refugees from Great Moravia, it is all I can do to keep some semblance of order in my army. I have no control over the armed masses that enter your lands out of hunger.

I fear soon I will be unable to resist the Magyars any longer. If you do not send help very soon, I will be forced to surrender to them to save my people and my Dukedom.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Duke Burchard of Swabia to Duke Otto of Saxony
We have noticed your armament programs and your accompanying lack of iron. We would entertain the possibility of a trade, perhaps for your tin or lead, in exchange for our iron, which would be very useful to your war effort.

With great interest have I heard of your proposal. Our merchants can trade some 150 denarii worth of lead a year, so what´s the figures we´re talking about? I would appreciate as much iron as possible, perhaps as a kind of loan which would be paid back as soon as the Thuringian lands generate profits.

[Cyclotron]

Duke Burchard of Swabia to Duke Otto of Saxony
We are willing to trade up to 300 denarii per year of iron to you; we can produce more, but we are ourselves under the threat of invaders and we must see to our own defense as well.

My proposal is that, in exchange for our 300 denarii of iron, you provide us with 150 denarii of tin, 150 denarii of copper, and 100 denarii of lead. Unfortunately, my holdings are being constantly pillaged by the ruthless Magyars, and I simply cannot afford to provide you with a loan at this time - perhaps when the situation in Bavaria has stabilized we can discuss a more long term deal. My most desperate need at this point is denarii to support the army.

We propose that this be a 5 year trade; at that time, either one of us can bow out without losing face, or renegotiate the trade. This seems wise, as the current situation may change dramatically in 5 years.

ooc: Just so you understand the trade system here, you would be getting 300 denarii which would multiply to 600 denarii when used for arms, while he would get 400 of your denarii. In total, he would make 100 profit and you would make 200 profit, as long as your arms production keeps up. There would also be a certain percentage bonus from taxes on trade and such, ranging from 10-50% of the trade's worth in profit for both sides.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Duke Burchard of Swabia to Duke Otto of Saxony
We are willing to trade up to 300 denarii per year of iron to you; we can produce more, but we are ourselves under the threat of invaders and we must see to our own defense as well.

My proposal is that, in exchange for our 300 denarii of iron, you provide us with 150 denarii of tin, 150 denarii of copper, and 100 denarii of lead. Unfortunately, my holdings are being constantly pillaged by the ruthless Magyars, and I simply cannot afford to provide you with a loan at this time - perhaps when the situation in Bavaria has stabilized we can discuss a more long term deal. My most desperate need at this point is denarii to support the army.

We propose that this be a 5 year trade; at that time, either one of us can bow out without losing face, or renegotiate the trade. This seems wise, as the current situation may change dramatically in 5 years.

ooc: Just so you understand the trade system here, you would be getting 300 denarii which would multiply to 600 denarii when used for arms, while he would get 400 of your denarii. In total, he would make 100 profit and you would make 200 profit, as long as your arms production keeps up. There would also be a certain percentage bonus from taxes on trade and such, ranging from 10-50% of the trade's worth in profit for both sides.

Duke Otto I. of Saxony to Duke Burchard of Swabia

Ah, a most splendid agreement. The first wagons will leave Bremen today! We are awaiting your iron shipment at the start of the year!

Orders edited.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Iron – 300 base income. The value of iron is doubled when applied to the construction of arms and armor. Thus, if a kingdom produces 300 denarii of iron, this will pay for up to 600 denarii worth of arms production.

You may want to change this to something like "additionally to the 300d of mining income all arms production will cost 300d less".

[foolish_icarus]

the king returns, and has set himself a deadline of tonight to address all these pressing issues.

Godspeed, loyal subjects

-da king

[Cyclotron]

I need to elaborate a little on the mining system because of a loophole I discovered.

Tin – 100 base income. This rises to 200 if a copper supply is also available, through trade or local sources.

This means that, technically, if I produced 100 denarii of copper, I could trade 99 away and still have double tin value, because of that one denarii of copper. Obviously, that amount of copper isn't worth anything, but per the RAW (for you non-D&D folks, that's "Rules As Written") that's how it goes.

Thus, I am extending the "50 denarii minimum" rule/guideline. I initially came up with it to explain why appleciders spending 10 denarii on espionage wouldn't do anything. Now, I am extending it to trades to prevent abuse:

- No trade may consist of less than 50 denarii worth of goods from each side. Thus, no trade will ever have less than 100 denarii total value.
- No synergy benefits (specifically, the copper/tin benefit) are derived from less than 50 denarii of any metal; thus, if you have less than 50 denarii of copper, the value of your tin will not be doubled.

[Micha]

You also could say that if both metals are in supply, each of them is worth its own value plus the value of the other one (to a maximum of its own value), effectively doubling the value of both metals.

So for example:
2 tin, 50 copper
-> tin is worth 2 (own value) + 2 (other one capped)
-> copper is worth 50 (own value) + 2 (other one)
For a total value of 56, so the synergy effect is 4 denarii

[Cyclotron]

I could do that, but it doesn't take as much tin as it does copper to make bronze. I think my way is a bit easier on the calculator, as well. Additionally, copper has uses beyond just bronzeworking, while tin is used almost exclusively in conjunction with other metals. Thus, copper is still valuable without tin, but tin isn't worth much without copper.

Also, if you notice in the info sheets, it is my standard procedure to round numbers to the nearest 5 or 10, because there isn't generally anything you would need in lesser divisions. Letting people trade 99s and 1s of things would mess up my system.

Which means, please don't try and trade 54 of something, or your merchants might goof up and send 55 instead.

[Micha]

Originally posted by Cyclotron
Which means, please don't try and trade 54 of something, or your merchants might goof up and send 55 instead.

Ha, if they try that they shall witness the true meaning of Ducal Power!



Gunther, we need four horses, four ropes, a mop and a bucket. And send a herald to the villages, we´ll have a little show tonight...