HRE NES

[foolish_icarus]

We should entice or threaten them into dismounting. Something that would break their order, like moving through a pass or ravine, or defending within a city, or attempting to loot a baggage train.

[appleciders]

Well, getting them defending Vienna would be a good way to do that, if we can get to Vienna before they try to block us.

Why would looting a baggage train force them to dismount? I'd expect them to attack on horseback, load up on their horses, and leave. I'd hoped to use the Danube as our supply line, too, so as to ensure that kind of safety.

I like the way you're thinking, though. Got any specific dirty tricks in mind?

[foolish_icarus]

It's hard to loot on horseback. Not foolproof, but they'd probably dismount and get disorganized.
Would they even care about defending Vienna?

[appleciders]

Well, I know they get a lot of money from Vienna, which is still largely a Christian city. We'd probably be welcomed there, but you're right, they might not. An ambush sounds good. I'll write up some orders, and pm you with the details.

In other news, I'm having trouble with my computer, so my responses may be sporadic.

[Cyclotron]

You might also consider PMing me with the details.

Micha, I'm not sure which turn you are planning your Drang nach Osten, but I look forward to getting your PMs on battle orders when you're ready to do so.

To make it easy for everyone involved, the basics I need for battle orders are:

- What troops are going?
- Which generals are going?
- Are you going?
- Which general is in command?
- Where are you going, exactly?
- What season are you going in?

And of course, your specific instructions on tactics and all that.

[Micha]

Alright, just want to say I´ll be sending orders within three days. Having exams right now and sporadic internet connection...

[appleciders]

Bavarian Orders:

Call up an additional 200 men to begin training.

The 200 soldiers who will be ready next turn should be equipped with the already-created spears and shields, and added to the Magyar Border Guard.

Put an additional 250 denarii towards the iron mines. I realize 200 is sufficient, but I really, really want those mines this turn. If the 50 extra isn't needed to complete the mines, spend it on improving the mines, improving roads that lead to the mines, or something else that will increase the productivity of the mines.

Return all "borrowed" church land to the control of the church. Cyc, could I get an estimate on how much of my income that will cost?

Bring von Frelsing to trial again with the help of the clergy (Yay for double jeopardy!) and push for an execution or excommunication. Give his land to some deserving noble. I realize that no choice to recieve this land will make everyone happy, but give it to someone in such a way that my nobles will be happier.

Produce an additional 300 pavises, ideally with the iron that will hopefully become available this turn, and add the pavises to my soldiers (spread them out so that each unit will have some). Do the same with the pavises produced the previous turn.

Place Vizegraf Gunnulf von Villach in command of the Eppenstein Levy in place of von Frelsing.

Send the Salzburg Levy to guard the Magyar Border. All other armies should meet with the combined German armies marching in from the west to press this assault.

[Cyclotron]

Hello NES players,

I've decided to make a change to the system, effective this turn.

I've realized that the maximum callup is inconsistent with how I want the military to function - namely, that standing forces should be small unless war looms. Therefore, I am removing the feature entirely; the amount of troops you call up in a turn is limited only by your money.

I'm keeping the max for weapons, for the moment, but we'll see how that plays out for the next few turns.

appleciders, I take it you are dropping Visloff der Kroat's promotion effort?

Also, the percentage of church land in Bavaria and Carinthia was 16% and 12%, respectively. Now, this is 8% and 5%. To reach the level it was before, that's 8% more of your Bavarian income and 7% more of your Carinthia income. This may be balanced to some degree by the decrease in corruption once the church is off your back, but in the short term you are going to suffer lower incomes.

On another note, murder is not generally punished by excommunication. von Frelsing would be charged with murder by the local Vogt (a reeve or constable), who holds the power to sentence people to bodily punishment or death.

[Micha]

Duchy of Saxony - ORDERS

Landgraf Theodoric von Norden has pledged loyality to the Duke of Saxony, he will take command of the newly formed "Viking slayers" army. About half of the Bremen levy will be assigned to this new task force whose main duty it is to attack any Viking raider spotted. In order to make them more effective, some 500 denarii are spent for Viking watchposts. Those are peasants paid to have an eye open for intruders, sending a messenger to the nearest castle whenever a Viking is sighted.

Vizegraf Widukind von Hildesheim is to be kept in mind for later appointments, so he is not to be dismissed yet. In fact, Heinrich has decided to make him his personal life guard. (Not that he needed one, but who knows...)
The Saxon Peacebringers are put under direct command of Heinrich. Widukind will act as a replacement though, should Heinrich be absent for whatever reason. All 600 new recruits are to be equipped as scheduled, the army will remain at Magdeburg until the reinforcements finish training.

Meanwhile Duke Otto has ordered additional 150 polearms, 50 bows and 150 light armour pieces to be produced, along with 200 new peasants to be recruited into the ducal army. This new levy will complement the Viking Slayers army.

Order summary:

• Build up a Viking watch network along the northern coast [500d]
• Form "Viking slayers", consisting of 150 medium swordsmen (sword, shield, light) and 50 light archers (bow, cloth) taken from the Bremen levy; Commander is Landgraf Theodoric von Norden.
• Make Heinrich commander of the "Saxon Peacebringers"
• Train 275 axemen (battleaxes, light armour), 215 guards (polearms, light armour), 110 skirmishers (bows, swords) for the Saxon Peacebringers (ordered last turn)
• Make 150 polearms, 50 bows, 150 light armour pieces [500d-300d iron]
• Draft 200 new recruits
• Train 150 guards [polearm, light] and 50 light bowmen [bow, cloths] and add them to the "Viking slayers"
• Spend 400 denarii on "hunting"

This will cost 1100d [1400d - 300d(iron)]

[Cyclotron]

Orders recieved. All I need are foolish's orders, and for appleciders to finalize his orders.

[appleciders]

Just an opinion, but the maximum call-up isn't the biggest hurdle to raising an army quickly; it's the way it takes two turns to get those troops. Serious damage could happen to a duchy before those troops were trained. A one turn delay might work better. Just food for thought, though; I'm not complaining.

EDIT: Well, sheesh! All this chaos over around 450, maybe 500 denarii? I expected much worse than that. Foolish, I don't think I'll need that loan. And yes, der Kroat may get promoted if he shows extreme feats of loyalty or something, but for the moment, leave him be.

[Cyclotron]

I understand the concern with the two-turn troop raising time, and I'll consider changing it. I think part of the problem is that, because you haven't yet conducted a military campaign, you don't actually know how much damage could be dealt in two turns - with an adequately defended border and a bit of money on espionage, an invading army would have difficulty penetrating into a Duchy's heartland in two turns. It's another matter entirely with Magyar or Slav lands, which are sparsely populated, have undefended borders, and no centralized garrisons. Without prudent border defenses, a Duchy should take serious damage from a surprise attack - that's the whole idea of a surprise attack. That is the point of the system, though it remains to be seen if it actually works.

As an example, consider a German invasion of Italy - Berengar is no slouch, and has a well defended border with Germany (as well as, most likely, some decent espionage reports). Even if his espionage missed the German mobilization (which would give him a comfortable warning), he would probably still see them coming as they marched through Swabia. It would take about 1 or 2 years (maybe more, if the general was poor or has a low siege warfare stat) just for an army to storm and reduce the fortresses guarding the roads to Milan. Given his preparations and espionage, even a good German general would be hard pressed to reach the gates of Milan in less than 2 turns - the most brilliant might only need one, with some luck, but even then he has to settle into a siege, which could take several turns if he is unable to quickly storm the walls or draw the city into his hands through subterfuge. Even if he succeeds, Berengar's army would be ready to move on the next turn, and Milan is only one of his cities. Sure, a general could also get away with some plundering of northern Italy, but it would probably only serve to make Berengar angrier.

[Micha]

For me the two turn training time makes perfect sense. You need to mourn the death of every single soldier on the battlefield, as you know he will be hard to replace. That keeps you from doing human wave tactics too often.

[foolish_icarus]

I presume that levies simply residing within one's borders are automatically retired and reinforced with new recruits so the old ones can go home and farm and such, and only levies on campaign are susceptible to war weariness?

[Cyclotron]

That seems like the best way to do things, and I think it will be assumed to work that way.