Armor and Shielding

[Jeremy Buloch]

Now I'm not sure if a Power Field is possible or even theoretical. So please any feedback, insight, or any other helpfull posts would be great. I would like to continue this discussion. So we can discuss other Armaments. Now its just not right for me to reply 3 times in a row so please contribute.
-J.B.-

[Straybow]

Somebody already made the first truly bulletproof ballistic material. Instead of weaving the Kevlar fibers into a cloth, the fibers are laid flat with layers going in different directions. The energy of the impact is conducted linearly as a shock wave by the fibers, away from the point of impact.

High velocity rifle bullets or massive shotgun slugs only penetrate a few layers, and the force of impact is spread out across a wide area. The only thing I've seen on it shows it as centimeter-thick inserts for ballistic vests, replacing the standard "flak jacket" inserts.

Spider silk and many other materials could be used the same way. I suppose energy shields would behave in some analogous sense, carrying energy away from the focus of the attack. The only obstacle in terms of physics is "coupling" the material projectile with the energy field in order to transfer energy.

"Neutronium" is not just a thousand times denser than normal matter, more like 10^15 times more dense. If it could be made into a layer a fraction of an angstrom thick it could be used as an armor component. It's strength would be derived from the Strong nuclear force instead of EM force that defines normal material strength.

It might not be orders of magnitude stronger than the same mass of normal matter, but it would have unusual properties when interacting with energy or normal matter. On the other hand, rupture might release titanic energies on the scale of fission/fusion. That could act like reactive armor, or it might be bad for the armor wearer, depending on proportions.

Nanotech is usually envisioned as the construction and repair process rather than the armor itself. Making a porous material or internal conduit doesn't matter. Nanites in mass might be able to reflect or diffract wave and beam weapons to some extent

When speaking of futuristic armor types it is probably best to have terms that describe what technology or material is used but not how it is used. Ceramics III might be thin sheets of material, while Ceramics IV is thick plates. Some parameter will simply guage the overall effectiveness in terms of game mechanics.

Another issue here (and raised in the other weapons/armor thread) is that effectiveness of armor against a specific attack mode isn't what defines defense for a soldier or vehicle, much less for a military unit of many soldiers or vehicles. No surface or space vehicle could be encased in massive armor and still be maneuverable.

Will space combat be resolved shot-by-shot, with generalized hit locations (turret vs hardened surface vs soft surface) and corresponding armor types, etc? If not, then actual parameters of the armor types matter less than creating a coherent model over all types of weapons and defenses.

[Jeremy Buloch]

ok heres my feedback... I agree with this:

When speaking of futuristic armor types it is probably best to have terms that describe what technology or material is used but not how it is used. Ceramics III might be thin sheets of material, while Ceramics IV is thick plates. Some parameter will simply guage the overall effectiveness in terms of game mechanics.

I however do not agree with this:

No surface or space vehicle could be encased in massive armor and still be maneuverable.

There are ways to make the armor lighter and more maneuverable. Also if the Armor does make it hard to maneuver then that would be allright because the armor would be cabable of withstanding extreme damage and wouldn't need to be maneuverable to get the job done. The other manueverable enemy would have less armor and would get damaged easily.
Any disagrees? Or agrees?
Please post feedback of any sort that is related to this discussion.
-J.B-

[DeathByTheSword]

modern day tanks/armors have full rounded armor all around. spaceships would be able i armor everthing execpt engine outlet and weaponsport.....but that is the same is we have today....you protect what ever you can....and weight isnt a factor in space....on the ground it is but not in space

[Jmaster]

Originally posted by DeathByTheSword
and weight isnt a factor in space....on the ground it is but not in space

Of course weight isn't a factor, but mass is. Mass has intertia, so unless we invent a tech to reduce intetia any vehicle with many tons of armor will simply not be maneuverable.

This self-repairing nano armor seems theoretically possible, but very advanced. It would probably have to be in the later game, with some nanotech prerequisites.

[Jeremy Buloch]

This self-repairing nano armor seems theoretically possible, but very advanced. It would probably have to be in the later game, with some nanotech prerequisites.

Yes quite right Jmaster. The nanotech would be after all the other armors except for a few other ones that might be put in the end. The sheilds could be made after them all yet then still have good armor with shields if the shields are unstable and might be brought down. The armor would provide help if that would happen.
-J.B.-

[Jeremy Buloch]

Magnatic Shielding. Hmmm... Would this be possible? Is it Theoretical? Is it Apropriate for Stella Polaris?
Well I know its apropriate but is it theoretical? That is the question.
A magnetic shield would certainly be neat. It would be, I think one of the lowest techs of shielding. The shield would act like a magnet. Pulling things towards it. Yet in this case "Energy" not metal. It would pull an opponents energy discharge towards itself. It in turn builds up strength of the energy making the shield stronger and it could if we want to make it. It could push back the energy and shoot the enemy. Or it could just power the object that obsorbed the energy. I hope you understand.
Now I now your thinking what if the enemy fires a projectille. What then? Well The armor of the object should be strong enough for that. The armor however is not strong enough for an energy discharge.

This shielding technology will have benefits and nonbenefits. Just like any other technology. So lets not rule out this technology to be inconceivable or any other nonsense, because everything should be looked into and after every way of looking at it is exausted then we can make a ruling. - Thats just for Future Reference.

-J.B.-

[DeathByTheSword]

shielding...as i always understood it. it works on a very strong magnatic field that stops (or atleast slows down) object or energy....this is nothing new magnetic field of the sun keeps solarflares in check and well we arent flying away because of magnatic pull. if you can pull with a magnetic field generated by matter you maybe can cause a push by using anti-matter or with a electrical charged field (star-trek)

[Jeremy Buloch]

Well I really dont know much about Shielding technology. As it currently doesn't exist. I thought I could spurt a discussion on the topic. So anyone who knows something please help!
-J.B.-

[Rasbelin]

I don't have more knowledge than you, but as I have been watching this discussion, I'm convinced that we have shielding and armor technologies for all eras, so the development can be well reconstructed in the game. The idea isn't to have everything when you start, but as the game develops you get more advanced with armor and shielding. Very basic stuff, but I'm just rewinding the discussion abit. You have to also keep in mind that as they left Earth, they "lost" some of the technological knowledge and know-how, so they're abit awkward than previously (~ ensures that there's enough techs to develop as we're otherwise running out of e.g. armor and shielding techs).

/me gets back to the audience.

[Jeremy Buloch]

Yes Quite Right Ras. I just want to discuss which Shielding technology should be in the game so that we can later discuss it more fully. It is a complicated subject to implement. We cannot get it absolutely correct but if we did we would need to tell the world. Scientists have studied and are most likley studing it now so I dont think we will get a working Idea that would well work. So most of this type of technology is nonfactual and quite impossible at the moment.

I like the Idea about anti-Matter shielding. It would be a neat topic to discuss. I was thinking, we could have temporal shielding later in the game. Like as a final tech. for Shields. It would phase the ship and/or object out of the space time continuim. So making it invisible to targeting scanners and so forth. This technology would be a revolutionary step for humanity in the game.
-J.B.-

[Leland]

To me, it'd seem that there are two major issues that shielding (and any other single aspect of technology) is revolving around:

1) Gameplay: it would seem natural that there is progress from crappy shields to better shields to ultimate kick-ass shields. The way how this progress happens, the variables associated within (HP, Rate of Fire, regeneration), and the formulae that various shield types follow (in the old forums it was suggested that there might be different kinds of damage systems, for example).

2) Technological backstory... this would have to tie in to the layout of the tech tree as a whole, and possibly to the alien/native life. Once you have tech that allows you to build nanomachines, flux capacitors or warp drives, you're going to have tech that has far reaching consequences in pretty much everything you do.

Seems like number 1 is the thing that should be the primary concern for you guys... number 2 can always be shoehorned and balanced once the tech tree starts to look like something intelligible.

[Jeremy Buloch]

So would a Temporal Shield be good for the game? I think yes. As I said before it would phase the ship and/or object out of the space time continuim. So making it invisible to targeting scanners and so forth. This technology would be the ultimate tech. in shielding. Better than any other armor or Shield, it would stop energy weapons and projectile weapons. Also would require lots of money and effort in creating this wonderfull defense and powerfull ally. It would be dangerous if not used properly. Yet the benefits are overwhelming.
-J.B.-

[Leland]

Allow me to rephrase myself...

It doesn't matter whether it's temporal shielding, nanotech or ubobtainium that's the "best" tech, all that matters is the gameplay value (formulas, values), and what technology it's based on (i.e. what other stuff are popping up when you get to that poing). That's it.

By the way, why is it called "temporal" anyway?

[Jeremy Buloch]

Temporal is another word for "Time". Its in the Dictionary...
All I want is to discuss what will be in the game. So when we have the values then we have something to work with not just values. We need to think about the science involved not the values yet. The values, I think would come after when we know what we are trying to add values to. OK???
Besides it doesn't hurt just to discuss a topic. Now does it? Shall I rephrase this?