Armor and Shielding

[Leland]

Originally posted by Jeremy Buloch
If the alloy were to have armor on the inside of the object (vehicle. etc.) and on the outside of the object and have fluid inside the object. Then The nanites would be able to travel more smoothly and benefically. We would need to specify the fluid. I dont know what type of fluid it is yet; any ideas are welcome. Yet the fluid would make the armor seem unstable. But if we were to make it have beems in it to hold it more securly. Then have the best armor around it. The nanites would be able to regenerate the armor when damaged and provide increased strength to the armor.

I'm not sure if I understood this idea, but wouldn't the only case when the nano-fluid can regenerate the armor be when it has already been pierced, and it might be a bit too late then? Or maybe the armor consists of thing layers which the nanites build from materials carried within the fluid (makign it a bit like circulatory system), so that the armor can strengthen itself from the inside in any places where it becomes weakened (or broken) on the outside...

Now when the good armor becomes obsolete then the nanites can transform the metal alloy (or any other alloy) into stronger material by replicating parts. If there is replicating technology in the game.

This sounds silly... nanites won't be (and in a game, certainly shouldn't be) a magic wand that solves all the problems. In practise, you'd probably have to develop and manufacture new "breeds" of nanites for each task. In any case, nanitech will probably be closer to biological systems than traditional technology... can you imagine an armor made of bacteria?

The nanites would I guess be an ability yet the armor would have to be modified to accomadate the nanites. So this is still up for debate. Should it be an ability or an armor. Or should it be both???

Definitely an ability, "shield regeneration" or something. Doesn't apply to energy shields, costs a lot when retrofitted to old units (you need a support system for the nanites), cheaper (or default) in organic units.

Just my 0.02 euros.

[Rasbelin]

Leland has the clue about bacteria as armor. It can't be a magic wand that would work as an ace card in the game. That would give too much power to one using nanites.

Just a few other 0,02 €.

[DeathByTheSword]

well nanites will not need a support system the idea about nanites is that they work on an own powersource that is derived from vibration of atoms.....but i agree the would be very expensive and would downgrade the armor a bit because you would need to have several thin layers with naniteliquode between it but nanites can build thinks on Molecular level NOT atomic level so making new kind of alloys would be impossible....the idea that you would need several kinds of nanites is correct and will up the cost so it would be Very expensive downgrade the armor but i would make it better resistence against piercing weapons and it would be regenerating......maybe it would have a penalty when attack by enegry weapons? the thiny electrical system would fry.....Or are we thinking about DNA-chips? that is technology that is present now a days (well just some month now) microships that are made of DNA and 1000X smaller......

[Gateway103]

Originally posted by Leland
I'm not sure if I understood this idea, but wouldn't the only case when the nano-fluid can regenerate the armor be when it has already been pierced, and it might be a bit too late then? Or maybe the armor consists of thing layers which the nanites build from materials carried within the fluid (makign it a bit like circulatory system), so that the armor can strengthen itself from the inside in any places where it becomes weakened (or broken) on the outside...

I think what JB meant was this. Please refer to the attached diagram while reading this (The attached file is BMP format, which apparently don't show up directly, see the next post for the GIF format, if you don't want to download the BMP file and open another window)

Rather than having a single layer of armour platings, use two or more thinner layers, connected by support columns of the same materials (as shown in the diagram). In the cavity between the two layers, a nanite fluid is present. The nanite fluid are composed of nano-robots, and a thick mineral and/or organic soup (depending on the armour plating), from which the nanites can extract the necessary materials for making repairs.

Furthermore, the armour plating itself should be treated so that the nanite fluid naturally adhere to its surface. This can be done electrostatically through molecular polarization, porus design, and other methods. The nanite fliud itself should also be self-adhesive, like water.

You'll notice that for the top and bottom Main Armour Plating Layers, it is actually composed of a thin non-permeable layer and a thick permeable layer. By permeable, I mean permeable to nanite fluids, not necessary including other fluids, such as water.

Anyway, the idea is that under normal situations, the nano-robots would likely be dormant, or on low-power-consumption mode.

When the armour is damaged outside due to say projectile impact, the very thin non-permeable layer would break (if it didn't than the impact is so weak the armour probably doesn't need repair) and the nanite soup would leak out a bit. Yet because the surface of the armour plating is treated so the nanite fluids adhere to it, it would quickly clog the breach, like clotting of wounds on our body. This would generally work even if the breach is large, since the nanite-fluid is self-adhersive, so can create a thin fluid film, so to speak. And since the permeability of the permeable layer isn't too high (perhaps not too porus), even if the nanite fluids are leaking, it wouldn't be very fast (diffusion is slow)

After the clogging, or rather during the clogging stage (because the breach can be rather big, and you don't necessary want to wait), the nano-robots would start repair/replicate the armour using minerals/orgran materials available from the soup.

Now as these nano-robots leak to the surface, it comes into contact with air, so perhaps you can program it to become active when exposed to air. But perhaps it would be better if there is also some sort of localized centralized control system (perhaps a small group of nano-robots, kinda like queens and kings, in the nano-robot hierachy) that tells the nano-robots nearby when to become active, and where to go (these nano-robots are probably best having some mobility, since passive diffusion can be really slow).

This also would work for internal damage, perhaps due to thermal stress, electrostatic discharge, etc. Which means these controlling nano-robots would need to be more sophisticated than the repair nano-robots, but that is conceivable.

Lastly, the nano-bots can replicate/repair itself with materials from mineral/orgranic soup, as well as repair the armour. The only concern is that the mineral-orgranic soup would need to be replenished if being continuously used up. The nano-robots may break down damaged armour/nano-robots back to constituent mineral/orgranic materials and put it back to the soup, but it is unlikely this would be a self-sustaining system. Nonetheless, replenishment shouldn't be too difficult.

This is one way how nano-robots can work for armour repairing. These nano-robots may extract energy from molecular vibration, but some small energy source, embedded inside the inner armour plating layer and/or the units employing these armours may be better, at least act as a supplement system.

This is how I think the nanite fluid may work, comments and questions are welcomed.

-Gateway103

[Gateway103]

Ooops, BMP files needed to be downloaded, can't be seen directly on the browser... oh well, here is the GIF version of the image, in case you don't want another window opened.

[DeathByTheSword]

well i like part of the idea....now your are talking about nanites as those thingies that are also in your blood...redplates orsomething like that......anyways i see nanites as actual little robots that repair the armor by making the new material from the soup.....it would take longer but it would be stronger because now you patch up with nanites (Gw idea) and here you patch up with the armor (my idea)

you can do it like this at first the nanites patch the hole (Gw idea) and after that the nanites starts working on repairing the hole.....(my idea)

[Gateway103]

Err... I actually meant that the nano-robots would first clog the breach, then replicate/repair the armour using mineral/orgranic materials that are available in the soup... guess I was not being very clear. I'll go edit my post to make it clearer, hopefully.

Thanks for point this out.

-Gateway103

[Jeremy Buloch]

Exactly!!! Thats exactly what I was trying to say. It was just hard to put into words. I thank you Gateway. Now the Clogging idea is great and would be much more beneficial to have. Like the platelets in our blood vessels. They react to a chemical and then clog the wound. That would be similar to the nanites and what they would do. They can activate by comming into the certain properties of Air or like on a Space ship it could have a hierachy system. Yes the liquid would not only support the nanites to be able to go from place to place but it will help to clogg the Breaches as Gateway said. I again thankyou for your magnificent Ideas.

Will they be expensive???
Well of course they will but they will have extrodinary benifits. Now the manufacture of this type of Technology would be difficult and expensive. So it wouldn't be manufactured fast. There would be like 1 out of 50 objects that had nanites. Unless the Faction was very wealthy and had extreme expertise. We could make it so that if the manufacture went to fast then the nanites would have bugs in them and would not function properly. So then the nanites might attack your own people or blow it self up or do the wrong thing. So there fore extreme percautionary measures should be taken into account. I hope you know what I mean.

This sounds silly... nanites won't be (and in a game, certainly shouldn't be) a magic wand that solves all the problems. In practise, you'd probably have to develop and manufacture new "breeds" of nanites for each task. In any case, nanitech will probably be closer to biological systems than traditional technology... can you imagine an armor made of bacteria?

Oh and yes my Idea was silly yet as I stated before. All Ideas no matter how perposterous, odd, or silly they may seem. Should be heard.

Since nanites are not really possible yet. We dont know what they can do. So things that may seem silly, odd, or impossible may not be in the Future. Just like people said about flying. They said it was impossible and if we could fly then we would be born with wings. Yet now we travel through the air.

So nothings impossible. Its just not within our reach. There is allways at least 1% probablility something will happen. If you have credible evidence to say otherwise then show it. This paragraph is what I think.
-J.B.-

[Leland]

Alright, now I'm beginning to see the light... so the self-repairing armor would be something like a regular armor, plus a "skin" covering it which holds the nanite fluid? That's a cool idea.

As for support systems, I'm thinking of power supply and some sort of communications array. I don't know much about nanotech, but I have the impression that these two are the biggest hurdles... nanites are too small to have individual radio transmitters (or so i've heard), and this idea of generating power from "molecular vibrations" sounds a bit dubious.

[DeathByTheSword]

communications can be done just like our nerves do...they give little electrical impulse from the one to the other.....so that is not a big problem......power is on the other hand another story

[Jeremy Buloch]

Ok as for the power supply I have an Idea:

In the object that is covered by the nanometal there will be a Power Generator that can power all of the Nanites in the vicinity. So it would make an energy field invisible to the eye and would give the Nanites power. Now this Power Generator will be shielded inside the object so it would not be damaged easily. Also it would not be the only one. It would be most beneficial to have at least 3 generators that are backup power generators. So the Object would be more survivable. The smaller the object the smaller the generator. So size of it is not a problem. Nor is it with Nanites.
-J.B.-

[Jeremy Buloch]

Well so does anyone agree or disagree? With my power Idea? oh and yes The communications would not be a problem nor will the size be.
-J.B.-

[Leland]

Well, it sounds kinda flaky. What technolocy or scientific principles is this "invisible energy field" based on, or is it just magic? Does it show up in the game before or after the invention of nanotechnology?

[Jeremy Buloch]

Ok your right. It is hard to explain but I will try within all my power to explain correctly. Now the energy field would be sort of like radio waves. That come out of the generator and gives the nanites power. It would be a benifit for its size yet would be an advantage to the enemy. By allowing the enemy to disrupt the power. Now I know this seems quite odd. I tried to explain it well. I dont think it is possible. Yet as I said before it may be possible in the future. It would be the thing were looking for that would give the nanometal a weakness. So that the nanometal wouldn't be imperveous to damage. We dont want something invincible.
-J.B.-

[Jeremy Buloch]

Oh oops I forgot to answer this:

Does it show up in the game before or after the invention of nanotechnology?

Well it would of course be developed before the technology was invented. Yet it could also be possible that the power generator be developed after the tech. Because in the beg. the nanites would be incapable of doing the tasks correctly. Because of its bugs that need to be worked out and because of the low expertise in the field of Nanotechnology. I however want it to be in the beg. It would be less complicated.
-J.B.-