Imperium Romanum released...

[SixArmedMan]

How can you blatantly ignore four references which state that the elephants survived? Did you even bother to check the bibliography or any footnotes on any of these links? It'd be narrowminded to ignore any references from a website, simply because its origins stem from "the internet". In any case, you DID misread the links he provided... Isn't it possible you're wrong in this case? That you might've misread your sources as well?

[Djugashvili]

great scenario young man! i wasted 7 hours sitting on my ass last saturday playing as the romans... im wondering which path the romans historically took, ya know to gauge how im doing... did they conquer southern or norhtern italy first? did they set out to conquer the south of what is now france (niceae, massilia) or greece and albania first? what were their priorities? im not real familiar with this era so answering these questions might help me rate my performace while playing... spose it doesnt really matter as long as the romans rule the world in the end tho.. oh well id like to know dammit!

[CyberChrist]

Small correction appear to be needed in the Roman events file 3 (may be needed on the other events files as well).

The randomly generated Macedonian Hypaspists and Hetaroi at loc 85,81 seems to be placed wrong. Sardes is located at 86,82. This means the Macedonians will keep getting units just outside Sardes even when Sardes is conquered.

[SunTzu]

Hannibal brought 32 elephants across the alps all but 10 Died. He had 10 elephants that survived to fight. I just looked it up in my History book today during school.

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http://www.civfanatics.com Staff


Bah! Can't use my sig

[BeBMan]

Djugashvili, at the time the scenario starts the Romans fought mainly in against the Etrucans (from the north) and several Italic tribes in middle Italy. 327BC started the war(s) against the Samnites. At its end in 290BC the Romans ruled Italy from the Arno (sp?) river (on the scn map not included, nearly at the same "height" as the northern top of Sardinia) to the Campanian territory in the South.

280BC started the war against Pyrrhos in Southern Italy, some years later all Greek cities there were in Roman hands

264BC the first Punic ar against Carthage broke out, fights were mainly on Sicily, which became the first regular Roman province at the end of the war in 241BC.

Northern Italy (the Po valley) was conquered later (if I recall correctly, Mediolanum 222BC? - perhaps we should ask Prometeus )

Greece came under Roman influence after the Roman victory against Macedonia 168BC (finally with the destruction of Corinth in 146BC), Southern France was under Roman rule since Caesar´s first campaigns (58BC)against Germans and Gauls, but some cities there had some kind of autonomy even later, e.g. Massilia, which was allied with Rome during the Punic wars, but later conquered by Caesar 49BC (?), who didn´t accept the neutrality of the city in the civil war .

For the scenario I recommend that you take middle Italy, then the North, and then the South (because in the scn the Southern cities are harder to capture)

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Civ2000

[MagyarCrusader]

BeBro or anybody else who's played this scenario, I have a question.

How difficult is the AI? Will the AI actually launch noteworthy attacks that can capture your cities? Like in Nemo scenarios where he heavily uses the moveunit command and you can actually lose vast amounts of land. In almost every scenario you never have to worry about losing cities because the AI is so stupid. I'm just wondering if this scenario is geared like Nemo's to make the AI a worthy foe.

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by SixArmedMan on 02-06-2001 11:29 AM How can you blatantly ignore four references which state that the elephants survived? Did you even bother to check the bibliography or any footnotes on any of these links? It'd be narrowminded to ignore any references from a website, simply because its origins stem from "the internet". In any case, you DID misread the links he provided... Isn't it possible you're wrong in this case? That you might've misread your sources as well?

If you go back further in the thread, you will see that I didn't blatenly ignore his references. This started as a point that should an Elephant be used in this scenario as a battle unit in northern Italy. I agree that it would indeed be narrow minded to ignore information from any source. I lost my temper with him and probaly should not have. What I was trying to convey was that the historians who were there state bluntly on the issue of Elephants that they were not there. It is certinly possibe that some of these creatures did survive the crossing. The real point I was trying to get accross(and none to successfully I now see) was to not accept at face value quicky history lessons over the net. I understand that men like Livy and Polybius can be long winded and boreing to the modern reader. And your right, I should have been more clear in my opinions, but it drives me to distraction that people jump to a site and say "your wrong". Did he think BeBro didn't research this point? Did he think I pulled it out of thin air? He as much as said so. Also, these Elephants did not have the impact that Indian Elephants had on Alexander's army, as the Indian was nearly twice the size of the small north african elephant. Right or wrong, this is what I think about this subject. His statement that I point out a web site for him to check really p*ssed me off, as this is the whole thing in miniature. Read Livy's history of the Second Punic War, go to a library and get it, because your not going to finish it in one sitting, was what I was trying to convey. I hope this clears the air on my intentions. I don't know it all. Not even close. He should look in the mirror and say the same thing.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Djugashvili]

well hey then Im doin pretty good! i think im in the 180s or so and i have much of central europe from the barbs, conquered greece, and am now campaigning in iberia and sitting outside Pella... funny, mediolanum is one of the first couple cities i took... what i dont like about this scenario is the fact that the AI builds so many damn cities and turkey has like NO infrastructure... this isnt really major, it just bothers me... is there a way to turn off settlers for the AI players? i mean i know theres a way, but would u do it? would it royally screw things up or what?

[Djugashvili]

(playing on proconsul btw)

[CyberChrist]

I have found another incorrect (I assume) random unit creation.

Barbarian Cimbri and Teutons are being created at location 52,54 a hill just next to Opitergium (loc 50,54).

[BeBMan]

MagyarCrusader, the AI abilities depend from what civ you play. If you play as Romans, AI Macedonians are heavily supported via events, but there forces are sent in the East, to conquer Persia. In most of the games, they conquer more than a half of Persia, but sometimes the game develops completely different.

If you play as Macedonians or as Carthaginians the Romans are supported via events, and, especially at the time of the Punic wars, a Carthaginian player should loose several cities (as well one who plays Macadonians).

Also a Roman player can loose some cities (as in Ceteram´s or SunTzu first games), if he didn´t check the events out before playing, but I wouldn´t this compare with the AI onslaught in Red Front, since the historical situations are completely different and so it was not intendet that the Romans are overrun by enemy forces

Djugashvili, disabling settlers generally for the AI would perhaps make the scenario too easy, I think

CyberChrist, this is no real error. During the tests I thought the same as you, and want to move their creation points into Opitergium, but then I did not, because it seems not too unrealistic that Barb plunderers appear directly in front of a Roman city



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Civ2000

[C0ckney]

Damn I'm behind,

Its 182 BC Italy, Sicily, Sardinia, Southern Gaul (up to Narbo), most of dalmatia is mine (except that damn city on a hill) and I am preparing a campain against the Macedonians.

But I know I am behind with science, still no siege towers and the independents are a pain in Gaul.

Great scenario Stefan, should keep me busy for weeks

[BeBMan]

Err, Cockney, I agree that Stefan Haertel makes great scns, but my name is Bernd...

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Civ2000

[Prometeus]

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 02-06-2001 06:24 PM Djugashvili, at the time the scenario starts the Romans fought mainly in against the Etrucans (from the north) and several Italic tribes in middle Italy. 327BC started the war(s) against the Samnites. At its end in 290BC the Romans ruled Italy from the Arno (sp?) river (on the scn map not included, nearly at the same "height" as the northern top of Sardinia) to the Campanian territory in the South. 280BC started the war against Pyrrhos in Southern Italy, some years later all Greek cities there were in Roman hands 264BC the first Punic ar against Carthage broke out, fights were mainly on Sicily, which became the first regular Roman province at the end of the war in 241BC. Northern Italy (the Po valley) was conquered later (if I recall correctly, Mediolanum 222BC? - perhaps we should ask Prometeus ) Greece came under Roman influence after the Roman victory against Macedonia 168BC (finally with the destruction of Corinth in 146BC), Southern France was under Roman rule since Caesar´s first campaigns (58BC)against Germans and Gauls, but some cities there had some kind of autonomy even later, e.g. Massilia, which was allied with Rome during the Punic wars, but later conquered by Caesar 49BC (?), who didn´t accept the neutrality of the city in the civil war . For the scenario I recommend that you take middle Italy, then the North, and then the South (because in the scn the Southern cities are harder to capture)

I couldn't say it better, BeBro, i'm impressed... Mediolanum was conquered in 222, but Insubrians lost all of their indipendence only after their last revolt that finished in 80 BC ( and no one of them received roman citizen status until Caesar ).

[C0ckney]

quote: Originally posted by BeBro on 02-07-2001 08:59 AM Err, Cockney, I agree that Stefan Haertel makes great scns, but my name is Bernd...

oops sorry, blimy I'm not having a good day