Roman Empire

[Palaiologos]

Splendid as always, Gareth.


Where did you find the uniform of the limitanei unit?

You know, Legio V was the longest surviving Roman unit. As i am a Macedonian myself, i feel particulary proud about them. Their name suggests that they were raised originally in Macedon, doesn't it not?

However in P.Connoly's book "Greece and Rome at War" they are reffered to as a Syrian or Egyptian legion.

The three legions operating at Judaea ,among them the V, are said to be two Syrian and one Egyptian(or the other way around, don't remember).

Were Syrians conscripted into the V at some stage?
I know that by the 2nd century AD the Roman legions were far from their original character, but that does not justify his characterisation of the V as Syrian.

Anybody have any info on the valliant Legio V Macedonica?



P.S If i remember correctly certain elements ("vexilations") of the V served as limitanei while others served in the field armies.

[fairline]

The shield device for Legio V Macedonica is illustrated in the Notitia. By the time of Justinian, Roman soldiers wore Persian or Germanic clothes; ie long sleeved tunics and trousers with embroided hems, probably white or red. The better equiped units would have used mail or scale armour.

I think they were originally recruited in Macedonia by Octavian in 43 BC, and were involved in the Battle of Actium in 31 BC. They were based in the East from 62 AD and fought in the Jewish war under the command of Vespasian. Later they fought in the Dacian wars.

A Vexillation of Legio V served as a legio comitatenses of the field army of the Master of Soldiers of the East based in Syria in the late 4th Century; by Justinian's reign in the first half of the 6th Century they were part of the Egyptian garrison, based in Elephantine - presumably this is how they came to be referred to as the Egyptian legion(?). Their shield device is depicted on later Byzantine monuments and, as you said, they lasted well into Byzantine times as a border legion in Egypt. I guess they would have been largely recruited locally by this time.

[El León]

Originally posted by Palaiologos
Yes, the source is the same(B.armies 1118-1461).


Thanks for the Dromon info.
The Arabs had tried unsuccefully to immitate Greek fire, thats why their ships had a siphon mounted on them.

Random comment - It was not an unusual naval tactic to carry burning coals to throw onto the other ship, since at least the 2nd cent. BC (for example, in the war against Syria and in the Macedonian Wars). Maybe this explains the siphon, greek fire or no.

[Valuk]

Em, you're Macedonian, Palaiologos?
I strongly doubt it .

[Palaiologos]

I don't get it Valuk.
I was born in Thessalonica in 1982.
What am i, if not a Macedonian(apart from Greek, that is)?.

[tanelorn]

Oh, not again! Please don't even answer that one.

[Palaiologos]

Ok, you are right. This thread is about the Roman Empire, not about a certain slavic people of obscure origins, background and future.

[Stefan Härtel]

Maybe a little late, but here's what happened with the Hephtalites or White Huns in Persia:

They invaded Persia after AD 400 and became the most important concern of the Persians from that point on. King Peroz was defeated by them twice. In 465, he was defeated on the battlefield and his son was taken hostage; in 484 AD, he was defeated again and this time killed on the battlefield.
What's interesting is that it is quite well-known what happened in this battle; Peroz tried to assault the Huns, but his entire army was trapped in a hidden trench. Nobody survived, and the bodies of the Persians were buried, in Kurgans or Kurgan-like graves (IIRC).
The ultimate effect of this defeat was, that Persia was brought into tributary dependance to the Huns. This again triggered famines and economic troubles in Persia, which peaked in peasant revolts; the most important figure here was Mazdak, whose ideas can nowadays be regarded as communist. Kavad I. at first supported this revolt, but he lost support in the aristocratic circles; he even had to abdicate for a short while before returning to the throne, this time being hostile to the Mazdakites; Kavad and his son, Chosroes I Anoshirvan bloodily crushed the revolts.
Chosroes now introduced some social, economical and military reforms, propably based on some of the Mazdakite ideas; before, however, going to war with the Hephtalites, Chosroes raided Antiochia, thus breaking the "eternal peace" of 532. About 560, the Persians destroyed the Hephtalite/Hun empire with help of the Kok Turks of Central Asia.
As for the Sasanian infrastructure and road networks, it was in typical Persian tradition, thus very good, though not quite as good as the Roman one. All major cities were connected to each other, the road network was most likely based on that of the Achaemenian royal roads.
There was major traffic in the Persian gulf, as all of Arabia from Basra to Oman was under Persian control; ship routes also connected all major cities at the gulf and in the Arabian sea, from Basra to Daibul (near Karachi).
You should also regard the fact that the Persian-Arabian border was heavily fortified since the reign of Shabuhr I.

[Palaiologos]

Great info! thanks!

[Valuk]

Ok, ok, I'm sorry, I'm just a bit pissed off about the fact that Greece is amongst one of the few countries in Europe who disregards human rights concerning the Aegean Slavic(Macedonian) and Albanian minorities.
But on the other hand, so do the Turks.

[Stefan Härtel]

No problem.
Did you get the maps, BTW?

[Palaiologos]

Yes. Thanks, Stefan.


And Valuk there is no such a thing as a slavic minority in Greece. They were all driven out after the 1944-49 war for supporting the enemy(communists).

The Albanian minority was cleansed during the German occupation by patriotic guerrilla organizations. End of discussion.

[Valuk]

Ekhm, how do you explain the Macedonian protests in Solun in cca. 1975?
The Greek government still conceals that there is ethic cleansing still going.
But hey, nobody's perfect, especially down on the Balkans

[Palaiologos]

What protests?



But hey, lets end this discussion here.

[Valuk]

Yeah, let's.