UFO: Aftermath

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Osweld


I rarely see people take strategy into consideration when talking about balance. They just look at the numbers and demand that each side has equal capabilities, ect..

A common misconception. Balance is about available counters, not identical capabilities or numbers. Have you ever played SC or WC3 online?

Edit: thanks for the PM tip yesterday btw - it worked out well.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

No, the publisher is saying, "If we allow you to copy the game, you will sell it to other people. So screw you!"

Ok UR, don't buy games that are copy protected, because it implies you are a thief. Also, to be consistent, don't watch dvds with protection, and don't listen to music with protection. Also, don't speak to neighbours that lock their doors, because they also imply you are a thief.

I bet you have no problem with playing the games that you refuse to buy on principle. I wonder where you get them from if you don't buy them?

I have to say UR, I don't always agree with you, but you usually post something that makes sense. This time however, sense has flown straight out the window.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by DrSpike


A common misconception. Balance is about available counters, not identical capabilities or numbers. Have you ever played SC or WC3 online?

I've played SC, and some people think the game isn't balanced. It depends on who you ask, I guess. I just don't like that 50/50 kind of balance.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Osweld


I've played SC, and some people think the game isn't balanced. It depends on who you ask, I guess. I just don't like that 50/50 kind of balance.

But 50/50 balance (I take it you mean no faction has an advantage) must be the aim in MP. I want to underline that this does not mean that the factions cannot be varied - SC (which is pretty well balanced) is noted for the diversity of its factions.

Your initial post said that too much balance means there is no strategy. This is IMO flawed reasoning; rather it is unbalanced games where there is a lesser role for strategy, since some strategies are overpowered and are always used. Balanced games require strategy, not least in the form of the counters you identified. We want the same thing I think, you just need to be more careful in how you express your thought.

If I am right you don't mean you dislike balance as it should be defined, rather you like diversity and the need to use appropriate counters, which feeds off (rather than is compromised by) a good balance.

[Raion]

I guess "balance" in a game, like UFO:Aftermath, means that certain weapons after you find out, what works, should be accounted for, and not seem to be better than some other weapons. To go into more detail may help the player too much, but lets just say, that the aliens should not be harmed as much, with some weapons. Balance it that aspect.

But then the player has to play it awhile to notice that, and all that can be fixed, if needed.
A player can look it up if they need to surmise a kind of cheat, but then, that is up to them.

[Raion]

But then, a kind of player beta testing has been known to be going on with a lot of other games, lately, because games are getting larger, or longer, or bigger, or all of that, also.

At least, if only minor bugs appear, and you have to rename the same saved file, or move it and reload the saved game, then that is only minor, and is more stable than most people seeing major bugs in a game.
Sometimes that does involve copy protection, but then, games are increasing in the cost to produce them also, and the cost of making a game, nowadays, is going into the stratosphere onwards towards the Moon.

But UFO:Aftermath works mostly good right out of the box, and I think that I rather have that, and be a kind of player beta tester, then have the other where major bugs imply that the game developer don't know what is really going on.
And then to get so complicated like MOO3 did, is well, short of intelligence somewhere along the way. Changing it daily does not get a game done either.
Using to many outside programs also and paying does not help to get the budget in line also.
So, in the end, UFO:Aftermath was made a little quicker, but it runs smoother, and is more stable, and yet, is a pretty good strategy game.
All with out going off the deepend of game making!

[Main_Brain]

Awesome Game played the whole day.
Some Strange Issues on my PC.
Everytime I get more than 6 Members the Equipment screen stops refreshing but returns to normal as soon as I dismiss those Members.
One annoying Bug which denies me doing any Base mission ( crashes right after I finish it )

The Guns are Fun :=)
Forget the Pistols though.
I used only the Shotgun for quite a while then switched to rifles (not assault rifles, G3 instead of G36E) this works until you get indoor missions. Where you need submachineGuns or Burstfiring assault rifles.

Random Hint: Dont equip Newbies with exlosive weapons.. its dangerous ;=)

[Raion]

I think some keys will also be different if having the U.K. version of the game, so a different keyboard layout may have to be installed. Something about the game that could not be done with the U.S. keyboard layout.
But that should be there in the Control Panel, except remembering the keys layout.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Ok UR, don't buy games that are copy protected, because it implies you are a thief. Also, to be consistent, don't watch dvds with protection, and don't listen to music with protection. Also, don't speak to neighbours that lock their doors, because they also imply you are a thief.

You are confused.

Do you expect to have free access to your neighbour's house? No. Do you expect to be freely able to backup your CD-ROM? Yes. Where's the parallel?

If you have no problems with publishers taking you as a thief, if you have no problems having your rights trampled, be my guest.

Originally posted by DrSpike
I bet you have no problem with playing the games that you refuse to buy on principle. I wonder where you get them from if you don't buy them?

I don't have a problem playing those games. The question is will I?

[DrSpike]

Don't get me wrong I dislike copy protection, and feel the same way as you about its effectiveness.

However, the whole idea that if companies try and protect their intellectual copyright they are calling you a thief is absurd.

The analogy with the house is in one sense sound, since the neighbours undertake precautionary measures like the company does, but I concur you can argue there is a difference because the company's protection stops you exercising some privileges you might want to.

However, if you feel this way about games you must never buy dvds, or cds. So do you pirate your entire dvd, music and game collection? I know you play games, and you have just stated you wont buy them if they have copy protection, as most do.

Copy protection is imperfect, but the companies HAVE to attempt to protect their intellectual copyright. In the extreme, if everyone behaves the way you seem to imply you do then the market does not exist at all, and everyone is worse off.

Now perhaps you'll argue that with no protection you would behave honourably and buy products. This may be true, I can't say. But do you really believe that this would be true on a general level? If so, that is IMO incredibly naive.

So copy protection, whilst imperfect, is here to stay, and rightly so. And your position is indefensible.

[Raion]

Well not to belabor which I lothed more. Copy protection or activation. I think I rather have the first.

Let me point out the obvious difference between software of 10 years ago, and today with UFO:Aftermath.

10 years ago, people were led by some software. Yes, they were led. XCOM is that way. What choice do you have? About none. They come in, you down them, or they terrorize, or next plot. It is linear, even though you do the entire research tree, and manufacturing mainly that way. The only thing that you can decide on is the manufacturing or research. You do not get to decide on battles, unless you do not take or do the battle.

In UFO:Aftermath, you have more choices to make. Simply put, there are more battles to decide from, more plot to the story, and it is not as linear, but you decide more of what to do.

I would think that most players would begin to see this, and not get bogged down with all the battles, because the aliens can seem to win more, perhaps, or that part is different.

I see UFO:Aftermath, as much more of a strategic game, then being lead around by the nose, by the aliens. This is "humanity's planet" and even being invaded by aliens, we still would run things our own way.

I fail to see, why XCOM really attracted that many players, except for the subject matter, where it feels like you are saving the planet from the alien invasion, and yes you are.

But UFO:Aftermath, offers, just that edge more, to excite the player to do it their way. And that should be important to any player, regardless of whatever game is being played by them.

More freedom to make the choices that matter to the player, later on in the game, although it is similiar to XCOM -- UFO:Aftermath still retains that 'distinction' and that to me is about as important as the other above matter.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Now perhaps you'll argue that with no protection you would behave honourably and buy products. This may be true, I can't say. But do you really believe that this would be true on a general level? If so, that is IMO incredibly naive.

I don't think it's naive. It's true in general because companies use copy protection to fend off pirates are going about this the wrong way.

Overall, people are not immoral cutthroats, otherwise you would be afraid to get out of the house. All right, the problem posted here is not users having a bone with "intellectual properties" etc. per se. They have a problem with getting shafted in a number of ways.

Perhaps the programs cost too much. Say games cost $50 only give you 15 hours of playing time. Perhaps the programs are buggy and require multiple patches to make them work. Perhaps the programs require various sorts of keys that can be lost easily. Perhaps the publishers protect their CDs from legit users so they can't make backups, treating them like thieves. Perhaps there a combination of factors.

It's either economical, that people perceive that they aren't getting good value for their $, or psychological. Either way, they won't pay. Even if it is possible to stomp out all piracy, they still won't pay.

It's the same situation with music, really. Witness that iTune is doing good business.

Let me point you to a column written by Brad Wendall (GalCiv) of Stardock. I know I posted it, but in the wrong thread, so here it is again.

Copy protection is not the way to stop piracy

CD Copy Protection Creates Pirates

Brad argues that Joe User gamer gets bothered enough to resort to warz downloads. His solution is to make it easy for the users to gain access to the stuff, and to provide extra value for the $.

More importantly, though Brad didn't say it, is Stardock says "We trust you."

[Raion]

Well, macrovision was in the news the other day. If that comes out, that will be strange, about disks that fade over time.

I see China is launching to go to the Moon, between Oct. 15-17, and the game, UFO:Aftermath, is set to now come out the 16th.

mmmmmmmmmmm....................................... .......

Were we warned off of the Moon?
Some think that we were.
The aliens might as well, be there, on the Moon.

Mainly, I think there has to be a way, that the people who have made copy protection, the way that it comes out, are the ones, because anyone programming would say that -- they are stealing my work and living!

And it just may be where humanity does not stand a chance against aliens, even if they were totally like the game, one can buy about it soon, UFO:Aftermath

Thus, like that word, even the phone line, and phone has a certain connotation attached to it!

[DrSpike]

UR: As a gamer I would love nothing more than to shelve copy protection and move to method x, which hopefully would protect the company's intellectual copyright without annoying people.

But the alternative ultimately lies in trusting people, and call me cynical but I just don't.

Remove copy protection and what happens? All those people formerly downloading games and getting cracks are suddenly consumed with guilt and start paying? Do they hell. I doubt even 1% would change their behaviour.

But what about the other set of people (and this may the set, that as an experienced computer user you overlook). Now I'm not going to say anything about your mum ( ), but my mum would not be able to download/borrow a game and find and install a crack. She is capable, however, of working the cdr.

The net effect on piracy of removing copy protection would be positive IMO. I appreciate it's subjective, though. I now realise we disagree on a smaller range of issues than I thought - if you would change your "they're calling me a thief position" to "copy protection is ineffective, and can harm honest users, and the companies should be open to other ways to protect their intellectual copyright" then we could agree totally I think.

The way you present the 'thief' case is what ired me, since it conflicts with the point that rationally, firms must find some way of protecting their intellectual copyright, or the market cannot exist. Copy protection, whilst imperfect, remains AT THE MOMENT the best choice. I hope there are soon others.

[Raion]

Ya, I guess there is. That Macrovision thing.
It is the copied disk that fades, and still allows someone to play it for a little bit, before the game parts start breaking down, and not operating right.

Operation Flashpoint will be such a game.

http://www.gamezone.com/ gave the game an 85%.

I think about an 80% rating is generally the average for the game of UFO:Aftermath.

Some parts do sound strange about the game, but then, I think some players are just focusing on losing to the aliens in various missions.

Except for the voices of the soldiers, which can be turned off.
Many options with the game, although they think the music is good.

Seems like a good start with a game, but could be better.