I truelly believe isolationism can work for the U.S.

[Lancer]

Can't do it Diss, because the wind blows.

[Tingkai]

DD: Do you really think the US has never made a mistake, that it has never caused any problems, that it is just an innocent bystander responding to events, but never initiating events?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that the US is evil or that everything wrong in the world is the fault of the US. Instead, I am saying the very fact that the US is the only superpower creates problems throughout the world, but not all problems. These problems are not necessarily something the US government wants.

The US decided it wanted to get rid of Saddam. Sounds great. The US got rid of an evil dictator. But now they have destabilised the region.

The US has the power to prop up various governments and it does prop up governments, eg the Saudis and Pakistan. During the post-WWII period, the US has installed and supported governments that created more problems then they solved (eg, South Vietnam). Other governments have been overthrown by US-backed forces (eg, Chile and Nicaragua).

The US policy of acting like the world's policeman means that other governments ignore problems they should be dealing with. Look at what happened in Yugoslavia. The rest of Europe sat around twiddling their thumbs waiting for the US to decide what it was going to do.

Is the US completely to blame for this? No. Is the US a root cause of this problem? Sometimes, yes.

But this whole discussion is pointless because the US would never be able to persue an isolationist policy. American corporations have global interests and they have the power to lobby the US government to act internationally.

A bigger question is whether the US government should persue a unilateralist foreign policy or a multilaterist policy.

If the US wants to go around doing what it wants to do then don't expect universal support from other countries.

A better option is the multilateralist approach. Yes, it takes longer. Yes, sometimes things won't go the way the US wants it to go. But in the long run it will be better just as democracy is better than a dictatorship even if it takes longer to make decisions.

However, this is not a black or white issue. The US needs to show the rest of the world that there will be times when it will not come to the rescue. The US needs to say, at the right time, this is your problem, deal with it. That's the only way to get areas like Europe to start carrying their fair share.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Tingkai
DD: Do you really think the US has never made a mistake, that it has never caused any problems, that it is just an innocent bystander responding to events, but never initiating events?

I just don't believe that the US is a source of a lot of the world's problems. I never said that we were perfect. However, I seem to have more faith in the ability of other countries to cause thier own problems than some people though.

A bigger question is whether the US government should persue a unilateralist foreign policy or a multilaterist policy.

It depends on the issue at hand.

[DarthVeda]

Isolationism is for fools. Build a time machine and go back to Pearl Harbor December 7, 1941. Have fun.

[Q Classic]

er, correction. old gw hated political parties, not keggers.

[Frogman]

Isolationist now? We have the best foreign invasion army in the world. What a waste it would be to close up shop now when we will never be this dominating again. We might as well kick all the *ss we can now. We got Cuba, Syria, NK, and Iran still to invade before wmd get any more numerous. I think GWB can do it if we give him 4 more years.

[Ned]

I think we really ought to pull our troops out of the ME ASAP. It is quite clear to me that our presence is unduly inflamatory. In due course, maybe never, the world of Islam will want to join the modern world. But until then, we should let them mature at their own pace - that is, unless they threaten us or our allies.

We should give Iraq our best shot at a democracy. But how can one have a democracy when the religious clerics want a theocracy? The people themselves have to want to live in a democracy. Otherwise, the ayatollahs will soon take over, as they did in Iran.

I actually now forsee a civil war in Iraq after we leave, because I do not believe the other peoples of Iraq will want to live under Shi'ite rule.

As to Korea - I also agree that we should simply pull out. The South Koreans are now attacking us if we walk down the streets of Seoul. They seem to believe that Korea is better off without the US. So why fight this? I am sure the average GI on the border no longer is willing to die for the sake of the South Koreans.

And so on and so on. The cold war is over. Dissident is largely right. If we view each situation in isolation, there appears to a strong case to be made for an American pullout across the board.

[Lord Merciless]

If the Shiites really get out of control, we just encourage the Sunnis and Kurds to go their own way.s We will also give the Rumailah oil fields to the Kuwaitis as war reparation. If the Shia state decides to attack, we will get our chance to crush them and shoot all those crazy clerics.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Screw being isolationist! We should send our army on a worldwide tour .

[Dis]

OK I am exaggerrating pushing for total isolationism.

But Ned has a point. We aren't wanted in the middle east. We should not be there. Same with Korea.

And I disagree that pulling out of germany would do anything to Europe. Things are very different in Europe now than they were 70 years ago. Russia taking over Central Europe? Not likely. They can't even control former soviet republics. Germany rearming? Not likely as well. Too much anarchism over there.

And I heard France's economy is hurting pretty bad. Even before the boycotts. I don't think other European economy's are doing any better. Some countries may adopt a Euro as a backup currency. But most will continues to use the U.S. dollar. It is still mroe stable than any other currency. And being the worlds' only superpower plays into that as well. I actually forsee problems in Europe. One; England will not adopt the Euro- not with france trying to dominate the EU. And France and Germany may undermine the whole EU. Think about it. They were against us, yet we still had support from central and eatern European countries. There is nothing united about the EU if you ask me.

[Tingkai]

The Euro exchange rate has increased from 90 cents US a year ago to about US$1.10. Seems like the Euro is the currency to hold.

[Lord Merciless]

Originally posted by Tingkai
The Euro exchange rate has increased from 90 cents US a year ago to about US$1.10. Seems like the Euro is the currency to hold.

Doesn't mean anything. In the mid 80s, the US Dollar soared to amazing height, just to fall totally flat a few years later.

For a while in early nineteeth, the Dollar fell to much lower level than today, only to recover few years later.

The economic foundation of a country is everything. With unemployment above 10%, net capital outflow, record bankrupcy level, and exorbant job creation costs, France and Germany won't go very far. Nobody will be sucking up to losers.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
Doesn't mean anything. In the mid 80s, the US Dollar soared to amazing height, just to fall totally flat a few years later.

For a while in early nineteeth, the Dollar fell to much lower level than today, only to recover few years later.

The economic foundation of a country is everything. With unemployment above 10%, net capital outflow, record bankrupcy level, and exorbant job creation costs, France and Germany won't go very far. Nobody will be sucking up to losers.

It doesn't mean anything? Do the math. If you took US$10,000 and changed it into Euros a year ago and a year later switched it back to US$, you would have made a profit of 21%.

And why did that happen? It wasn't because of a change in the "economic foundation of a country". The Euro's value has increased because the uncertainty of the US economy.

That uncertainty is still there as investors are not completely sure about what the Bush administration will do next.

Mind you, war victories are always good for the US stock market. I figure US stocks could be attractive in September, assuming the US doesn't start another war.

[dannubis]

you may have had the support of some european governements in the war against iraq, but in no european country other than england a majority of the people was pro war ...

and as far as the loser part goes, germany and france have a smaller unemployment pctage than most states of the US ... So economically spoken, who is exactely the loser here ?

[Lord Merciless]

As I have pointed with past examples, fluctuations in currency values are normal.

Anyone who believe that Euro will replace the Dollar as the new global currency should look at the economic realities of France and Germany.