Women and Augusta National Golf Club

[Agathon]

On contradiction:

Can anyone show me how the following beliefs contradict each other?

1. Agathon believes it is wrong for golf clubs to discriminate for racist ot sexist reasons.

2. Agathon believes it is wrong for gymnasia to discriminate for racist or sexist reasons.

3. Agathon believes it is right for golf clubs to discriminate when there is good reason

and

4. Agathon believes it is right for gymnasia to discriminate when there is good reason.


No contradictions there....

[Ming]

Thank you... using the above, there is nothing wrong with Augusta's practices. They have good reasons for not allowing women.

So why did you start this thread, and why have you kept saying that their practices are discriimination. All they are doing is enjoying their right of free association, and they have valid reasons for not allowing women.

Again... thanks for supporting most other people's view in this thread and finally dropping your illogical point of view.

[Berzerker]

Slow Play

This is good grounds for discriminating against slow players only. Not all women are slow players.

Ah, but when you justified banning men from gyms, you claimed men are pigs. Since this is a generalisation and obviously does not hold true for all men, you still justified banning all men regardless of whether or not they are pigs. On average, women are slower golfers, therefore women can be banned even if there are women who are not slow. So why the continued double standard?

[rah]

And for the really obscure reason.
One of the all men course in the burbs by us, let's the men play in any state of dress or undress. Some of the men take advantage of this clause and enjoy letting their "boys" have a little freedom on the course. Some say they play better this way. You really couldn't do this if women were present. Sometimes you have to pick your foursome carefully.

[Berzerker]

Can anyone show me how the following beliefs contradict each other?

1. Agathon believes it is wrong for golf clubs to discriminate for racist ot sexist reasons.

2. Agathon believes it is wrong for gymnasia to discriminate for racist or sexist reasons.

3. Agathon believes it is right for golf clubs to discriminate when there is good reason

and

4. Agathon believes it is right for gymnasia to discriminate when there is good reason.


No contradictions there....

Look harder at #2, you argued for banning men from gyms because "men are pigs". That is a sexist argument... But I'm sure you're one of these people who believe women (or male feminists like you) can't be sexist and blacks can't be racist... Of course, the added contradictions are conveniently hidden under the words "good reason" since you will decide for everyone when their reasons are good or not...

[Sava]

God could come down from heaven and say that Augusta is right and Agathon would still argue.

[Ming]

Hey rah... I mentioned that famous all mens club in an earlier post. And brought up the "dress code"...

He just ignorned it... probably because it isn't a valid reason to him for men not to want women around.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Agathon


1. Why does this necessitate having men only golf clubs rather than some other men's club?

This proves that you have no idea what you are talking about.

If Augusta were any other type of club, you would still be complaining.

It just happens to be a golf club.

Were you molested by a male golfer or something? Is that why you have trouble with men only golf clubs?

ACK!

[SlowwHand]

The reasons listed, they're in direct opposition.
1, 2 match and 3,4 match. That's all.

And actually, it's not the clubs discriminating.
Clubs couldn't care less who swings them.

[Berzerker]

As Agathon has shown why some women wouldn't like having men in the gym (duh), Rah has, in a rather colorful manner , explained to the master of critical thinking, Agathon, why some men wouldn't want women on the course or in the clubhouse - because the opposite sex can inhibit behavior. While Agathon can see the ramifications of his "men are pigs" argument when it concerns the effect on women in the gym, he cannot see why women brought into the male environment will effect the behavior of men as well. I suspect Agathon is too in touch with his feminine side to care about us "pigs", but we need our stye just as the hens need their coup...

[tinyp3nis]

1. I admit only reading some of this thread, ,maybe later I'll read the rest so I can be sure not to be unaware of some things.

2. If _I_ decide to start to private golf club for men only with 2 inch penises who weight 400 pounds, it's _my_ decision, and should be respected.
3. Because the bizzard rules, it will result with low member rates, but that only backfires againts me, it's not really hurting anyone else. Anyone else it's hurting, is a person who doesn't approve of my ways!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

2. Agathon believes it is wrong for gymnasia to discriminate for racist or sexist reasons.

Actually, Agathon doesn't. He feels it is ok for women gyms to exclude men because of sexist 'men are pigs' reasons.

Compare: if racists don't have chocolate, then it follows by the laws of logic (according to the wise Imran) that nobody has any chocolate!

And chocolate and Free Speech are the same? Unlike chocolate, you can't 'increase' freedom of speech. It's an ideal. You either have it, or you don't. If you deny freedom of speech to one person, you destroy the entire concept!

Idiot!

How would you feel if you went out of your house every day, and saw posters everywhere saying that you were an animal and deserved to be lynched?

If it is on their property, I got no problem with it.

I'd say that the KKK should be left alone as long as it's harmless. But if it becomes a threat to the well being of others - smash it.

Thank you for contradicting yourself. You said you'd smash the KKK simply for being a racist organization, which means even if they sat around saying how blacks suck, you'd still smash them even if they weren't a threat.

Since Asher's style of argument is to endlessy repeat his opinion with "can't you see?" or some similar phrase added to it

Hmmm, seems to be exactly on par with you. No wonder you two hate each other.

All I've been talking about is a law that would prevent institutions from wrongful discrimination on the basis of race or sex.

What's 'wrongful'. It seems to me that 'wrongful' to you is simply what Agathon thinks is wrong. In essense you would silence racists by destroying their institutions by making them admit people that are against their views.

Are you saying the KKK has to admit blacks and Jews? Then you've just silenced them because their position is exactly opposite.

Game. Set. Match.

[Sava]

Agathon, I like you. But seriously... you are wrong. Instead of saying Augusta should be forced to admit women (which they shouldn't), how about you argue that they shouldn't be holding public events if they are a private club. That argument has merit. Your current one does not. And watching these guys pick you apart is like watching an animal get tortured. I just want it to stop.

[Ming]

Sava... many private clubs hold public events. The purpose of many clubs is to do just that. Many private clubs make money and market themselves. The difference, they do it as non profit organizations, and the money is all reinvested in the club. Many clubs can't stay in existence without such activity.

His earlier comments, which he will probably deny like he tries to do for everything else, indicate that his problem is that they make A LOT of money. So it seems like it's only discrimination to him if you are successful

Again... his only arguments seem to be is that it is discrimination, because he says so...

[Berzerker]

Sava -

Instead of saying Augusta should be forced to admit women (which they shouldn't), how about you argue that they shouldn't be holding public events if they are a private club. That argument has merit.

What merit? The only group of people who should not be allowed to discriminate based on their personal views of sex and race are politicians and bureaucrats because they operate with money forcibly taken from both sexes and all races. Augusta and other private institutions and people do not... Btw, the Masters is not a public event, it is a private event. Public events occur on public property if not with public funds just as we make a distinction between public roads and private race tracks like Daytona...

And watching these guys pick you apart is like watching an animal get tortured. I just want it to stop.

I would cringe at seeing an animal get tortured, watching Agathon get ripped apart is entertaining.