Women and Augusta National Golf Club

[rah]

Originally posted by Agathon


Overdoing the capitals aren't you?

Do only Jewish folks play golf in your city?

I don't think they should feel dirty. I'm going to hedge my bets here.

If there is good reason to think that enforcing the diversity clause will lower the overall amount of bigotry in your area then they shouldn't feel bad.

If they don't think it will make a difference they shouldn't do it - personally I think that they should be very explicit about advertising that it isn't a Jewish Golf Club.

Four capped words in a post that long isn't excessive

No everyone plays golf there, not just Jews.

Enforcing the diversity clause will not lower the overall amount of bigotry since there really wasn't any in the first place, since most bigots will not join clubs that have members of whatever type they are bigots against. But by enforcing the diversity clause there is a chance that they may uncover some bigotry as people react to their decision since some people will now feel excluded due to their religion.
And I think any club that explicitly advertised that is wasn't a Jewish Golf Club would suffer greatly in PR in the community. People would assume that it was a Gentile club and that Jews weren't welcome You have to be quite careful with that.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by rah


Four capped words in a post that long isn't excessive

No everyone plays golf there, not just Jews.

Enforcing the diversity clause will not lower the overall amount of bigotry since there really wasn't any in the first place, since most bigots will not join clubs that have members of whatever type they are bigots against. But by enforcing the diversity clause there is a chance that they may uncover some bigotry as people react to their decision since some people will now feel excluded due to their religion.
And I think any club that explicitly advertised that is wasn't a Jewish Golf Club would suffer greatly in PR in the community. People would assume that it was a Gentile club and that Jews weren't welcome You have to be quite careful with that.

Agreed on the last point. That's not what I meant. I suppose they could advertise as an ethnically diverse club - that seems harmless.

I suppose the rule ought to go then if it isn't going to do any good.

[tinyp3nis]

This is so dreadful, so I'm gonna just ask and not waste my poor eyes reading the whole thread.
Has there allready been good reasons why private club isn't effectively same thing as the poker night I noticed mentioned, or me going fishing with the people I want to, or whatever, excluding the fact that, of course the club is bigger. Is this it, it's bigger?

And the about the racism??? What the hell? Racist people are permitted to exist just like the rest of us. It's called freedom of speech and _opinion_. I don't understand why we should obstruck them from functioning unless it's harmfull to us or someone. And the "It makes me pissed they exist" just isn't enough sorry. Such places shouldn't be engouraged of course, quite the opposite, but if there is a need for such place, the racist people own the land, why the hell not? Like I said, if I wanted to build a place for fat men with 2 inch penises, I should be able to.

The club is the fishing cabin the manly female fearing gents can go and be with whoever they want to be hanging out. Hell, a cabin with no blacks or jews or whatever is fine by me, I don't wanna go there but whoever likes sure. Banning the cabin isn't fighting racism at all, it's just destroying a place for racist people to be in. They are grown men, could be argued that even they could be taught not be racist ( ) but taking away their place is not going to help anything or anyone, well it will make the racist hating people happy, that's all.

The day there aren't racist people, or not enough of them to even meet eachother, such places won't exist. We don't need new racists, but we shouldn't tease the ones we have just because they are stupid and have issues. Stupid people with issues becames terrorists if you tease them. I'll stop before I drift too far from the subject.

[rah]

Originally posted by Agathon
I suppose the rule ought to go then if it isn't going to do any good.

But if the rule goes, then there's a good chance (as what has happened to other clubs around there) that it would start to evolve into an all Jewish Club, due to the high turnover. Then the group that started the club with the high minded goal of a well diverse club will fail.

And when a specific group is percieved as taking something from another group, that is fertile ground for bigotry to grow from.

RAH

[Agathon]

You'll have to go back and look.

[Berzerker]

Agathon -

I wouldn't pull the "experience" trick if I were you. I could easily just pull rank on my experience teaching logic and critical reasoning (which would make whatever you have look pathetic).

You pulled this rank earlier and now tell others they shouldn't do what you've already done? What a hypocrite. Btw, we've yet to experience your logic and critical reasoning...

[Berzerker]

"True... However, in MOST cases, women are slower than men. Yes, there are exceptions." - Ming

Then there shouldn't be a general rule against women - Agathon

You justified all women gyms (banning men) based on your "men are pigs" argument, so why do you now oppose a general rule when it comes to women at Augusta?

[Berzerker]

Agathon -

Whether or not one plays golf, or how much, or for how long has nothing to do with arguing this case.

Can you get any more ridiculous? If you are clueless about golf, how in the hell can you judge the reasons offered by golfers for policies effecting play and the course environment? Would you ask a gas station attendant to judge the reasons offered by the medical profession regarding surgical policies?

[Q Classic]

honestly.

i just love how extreme liberals, in the name of equality, liberty, and justice, championing the cause of the poor downtrodden oppressed untermenschen, often become so closed-minded and behave in exactly the same sort of way towards those they seek to "educate".

===

agathon, i want you to state whether you agree to the following statements or not:

1. women need time with other women to talk about female things, particularly with no males present.
2. men need time with other men to talk about male things, particularly with no females present.

3. men can be sexist, but not all men are sexist.
4. women can be sexist, but not all women are sexist.

5. a private organization, defined as not receiving any public funds for its support whatsoever, which has not caused any violent, aggressive, nor engaged in any virulent, hateful, or destructive behavior or speech has a right to continue following its own policies, even if said policies seem outdated or backwards.

=

for the following, i want you to give a short answer to the best of your ability.

6. a private organization, or business, if you will, which has numerous competitors, does not wish to allow members of a certain gender group join its ranks as a full member of the club. its facilities have been matched by several other competitors which allow said gender group full membership. is anybody, other than the organization, being hurt by this policy?

7. in the case of said organization which restricts membership, if it donated a large quantity of its proceeds to numerous charities when it had sponsorship, and is now unable to donate anything at all because of the lack of sponsorship arising due to bad publicity, who, other than the organization, is being hurt by this policy?

8. if a golf club allows its full members access to its facilities at any time, but allows members of all disctinct groups full access to its facilities during widely-known times, is it wrong if its full members all originate from one select group?

[Q Classic]

now, after you answer those questions, click and read up on the following links below.

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3

[Berzerker]

1. women need time with other women to talk about female things, particularly with no males present.

2. men need time with other men to talk about male things, particularly with no females present.

Apparently Agathon believes (1) but not (2), which makes him a sexist.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Btw, I'm absolutely chomping at the bit to have Agathon be opposing counsel in court against me. I'd rip him a new *******, while the judge laughs him out of court. 'Experience' in logic my ass! How come he hasn't shown any then?

[Boris Godunov]

I'm still confused as to how anyone could assert that women have the right to have a sexist institution against men, but not vice-versa. How can this be?

[rah]

As he states, superior LOGIC.

[Straybow]

Historical note: the word golf comes from
Gentlemen
Only
Ladies
Forbidden

Rhetorical Question #1: Is this really about Augusta National?
Rhetorical Question #2: Who noticed Martha Burke before this?