NHL Playoff Thread-Mania...

[Richelieu]

I have only one word for you Imran : Trashers!

[Imran Siddiqui]

They look like a good young team. They'll never be in my hearts though as my hometown Devils .

I just read a good article on ESPN.com saying Scott Stevens, when he retires will be ranked among the all time great defensemen in NHL history. I have to agree. He's the heart and soul of this team, and while Marty will win the Conn Smythe if we win the cup, I wouldn't be surprised if Scotty does.

[Sava]

No Imran, if Anaheim even scores a goal in this playoffs, it would be worse than them getting shut out and losing in 4. The last thing the NHL needs is some crappy, system-team winning the Cup. Other than Kariya and Gigure, that team is full of guys I wouldn't pick for a list of the top 100 players in the NHL.

It's not the system I mind as much as the lack of decent players. When NJ won their first Cup, I was a bit dismayed that a system won, but I was able to accept it and almost form a liking for the team because they had a core group of guys that were great: Brodeur, Stevens, Niedermayer...

These kind of system teams are just that... system teams. They play a style of hockey which exploits the rules. Put that Anaheim team on International ice, or even get rid of the two-line pass... and they miss the playoffs.

Call me crazy, call me stupid, call me a moron... but I like watching good hockey players play hockey. Not some orchestrated system chipping away a puck for two periods before someone gets a rebound goal.

[ixnay]

the nfl should abolish rushing plays cos it's boring to watch teams run the ball all the time.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sava, you have an inflated idea of what 'hockey' IS! Hockey has always been about the ugly rebound goal. What do you think Dave Andrychuk relied on for his career? And he didn't really play on 'system' teams.

This whining is silly, especially when you notice that the great Montreal Canadian teams of the 50s and 60s played a 'system'. In fact, they invented the neutral zone trap. Every team plays a system.

[optimus2861]

^ Imran, the 50s/60s Canadiens could beat you both ways. They were scoring at a pace of over 3.5 goals per game from the 57-58 season right up through 61-62, and were the league's highest-scoring team from 53-54 to 62-63. I don't think anyone could possibly characterize either the Ducks or Devils as high-scoring in any sense of the word.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What does high-scoring or not high-scoring have to do with if a team played a 'SYSTEM' . The Canadians played a system. They played neutral zone trap hockey, their offensive stars were so skilled that they'd score a lot too. What, you don't think Jacques Lemaire came up with the system by himself, did you?

[Agathon]

Ducks win 3-2, only Brodeur kept the Devils in the game and even he let in the most laughable goal I've ever seen.

Go Ducks!

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What does high-scoring or not high-scoring have to do with if a team played a 'SYSTEM' . The Canadians played a system. They played neutral zone trap hockey, their offensive stars were so skilled that they'd score a lot too. What, you don't think Jacques Lemaire came up with the system by himself, did you?

I thought he did.

As for neutral zone trap hockey, are we talking about Canadians or the Canadiens? You'll have to explain your comments more, or provide links, before I believe your theory.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Jacques Lemaire when he was coaching the Devils and talking about the trap said that was the system that he played with the Montreal Canadiens hockey team.

This Montreal Gazette article says it was invented in Sweden in the 70s and brought over by many NHL coaches, but became synonymous with Lemaire:

http://www.geocities.com/torpedohockey/montreal.htm

The first modern neutral zone trap is said to be used first by the 85-86 Montreal Canadiens (the ones that won the cup in front of Roy), but Lemaire wasn't coach of that team anymore at that time. Anyway, Jacques says the system he used in New Jersey is based off the system he was used to when he was a player.

[Tingkai]

Sh!t, an American teaching a Canadian something about hockey. Well, live and learn.

Thanks for the link Imran

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sh!t, an American teaching a Canadian something about hockey. Well, live and learn.

No prob, but I remember clear as day Lemaire saying the trap was the system he used as a player in Montreal. Maybe he was lying (I don't see why he would be), but that is what he said. Though, you can blame the entire thing on the Swedes if you want (I'm sure the Fins would love to hear that ).

[Sava]

Imran... since you proclaim to have a good grasp on hockey history, perhaps you can appreciate the evolution of skill. Trapping systems work due to a dillution of talent. Hence, those Montreal teams and their early trap-style stopped working, most notably, when Bobby Orr came around and revolutionized how the defence position was used. He was good enough to beat the system, and teams stopped playing it. My whining is quite specific, yet you seem to have misunderstood.

I'll restate and clarify the motives behind my rants and what I'm talking about.

1. Offense is down. The proportion of garbage vs pretty goals aside, even a garbage goal is exciting... and since the number of garbage and pretty goals are down, excitement is down. Good goalie play is also exciting, but the blocking, hooking, holding and obstruction that comes with the trap also decreases the number of quality scoring chances. Less quality chances = less amazing saves.

2. Good players defeat defensive systems. There is a lack of desperaty in the overall skill of players, hence... more teams play systems. Since these defensive games are less exciting, I don't know about you, but I like watching goals instead of dump and chase; fan interest is down. To accomodate this, I have suggested rule changes in the other thread.

Any future replies to my rule changes and such should be in the other thread. Thanks.

go NJ!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Trapping systems work due to a dillution of talent.

Not always. That '95 Detroit team was loaded up and down with talent, with people that could skate around you like you were sitting still. Yet the trap worked perfectly against them and swept them. No one, I would think, would call that '95 Detroit team devoid of talent.

Your problem is that many talent poor teams play the trap. Yeah... but they usually don't go very far. Trapping teams that go far HAVE talent. Minnesota this year may have trapped their way to the Western Conference Finals, but you cannot deny the speed and talent of that young team.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Not always. That '95 Detroit team was loaded up and down with talent, with people that could skate around you like you were sitting still. Yet the trap worked perfectly against them and swept them. No one, I would think, would call that '95 Detroit team devoid of talent.

That's not the entire story behind that series. The trap worked for New Jersey, but they also had the skill to make it work against that Detroit team. Replace Brodeur with an average goalie and Detroit wins.

Your problem is that many talent poor teams play the trap. Yeah... but they usually don't go very far. Trapping teams that go far HAVE talent. Minnesota this year may have trapped their way to the Western Conference Finals, but you cannot deny the speed and talent of that young team.

Look at the '96 Florida Panthers... But yes, you are correct. That's why I proposed the rule changes in the other thread. It's not the trap I have a problem with per se'. It's the exclusion of an offensive game. Minnesota is a perfect example of what I'm getting at. They played the same system since they started, yet had success because they have the skill now. Before, they played non-stop trap. Now, they trap defensively, and are able to score using their skill guys. I just want to see rule changes that make it more feasible for offensively skilled guys to showcase their talent.