Women in the Military?

[Lancer]

Damn Mike, I had no idea you were so sexist! ...and what's the "babe" bit, sorry pal, I ain't like that.

[Donegeal]

Now while I hate PC BS, I think that women in the military is fine. I think it even increases morale (and I am speaking from the perspective of someone in the military).

However, the one thing that I hate that the US did when allowing women into the military is the dual standards. Women of the US military have to comply with an entirerly different set of physical standards that men. The difference in weight standards, I can understand. Men and women are built differently and require different amounts of body fat to be considered "healthy". Now with respect to PT (the Physical Training: ie push-ups, sit-up and running) I still see no problem with women having different standards to be able to be in the military. It is when you get to combat positions that this should become an issue. All military combat soldiers should meet certian PT standard reguardless of sex.

If I'm going into combat, I want to know that my battle-buddy is capable physically doing everything that each and eveyone the the other soldiers are capable of.

[General Ludd]

No, and men shouldn't be allowed in either.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Lancer
Damn Mike, I had no idea you were so sexist! ...and what's the "babe" bit, sorry pal, I ain't like that.

Just trying to keep you in your place. Bring me another beer, willya, honey?

[Lorizael]

No Lancer, women aren't aspiring to be men, they're aspiring to be human, something that only men were allowed to do until the Women's Rights Movement.

Stop thinking about the human race as divided into men and women, christians and muslims, blacks and whites - it is just humans goddamnit.

Yes, women should be allowed in the military, and should be allowed to do all that men can do. And yes, they should have the same standards as men, even if this means that fewer women get in, because we're looking for equality here.

[RGBVideo]

No Lancer, women aren't aspiring to be men, they're aspiring to be human, something that only men were allowed to do until the Women's Rights Movement.

Stop thinking about the human race as divided into men and women, christians and muslims, blacks and whites - it is just humans goddamnit.

Yes, women should be allowed in the military, and should be allowed to do all that men can do. And yes, they should have the same standards as men, even if this means that fewer women get in, because we're looking for equality here.

[Pekka]

I served with women, and women here can do combat if they wish. Actually they pretty much have to if they volunteer in the army, you can't choose so much what you get to do, they'll tell you what you can do after you have proven yourself and your abilities. I guess that's the way in every army.

I had the pleasure of serving with few outstanding ladies, they were good, tough and mean. The rest of them (maybe 85%)?... I don't mean to be the rude macho man here but.. uh oh it was horrible. It wasn't their fault really, but many guys spent most of their time trying to flirt with them, or get with them. And I know that some even did. Now.. I like sex and porn like the man next to me, but it's not the place or time. Maybe I'm a superlifer or what ever, but I like to concentrate on everything there is to be done and learn everything they teach me and then some. What if I have to go to war? The guys next to me were only flirting with girls and talking about their tits and what not. I want to do that too, but there are time and places for that, like when you're out on beer, or free time. God damn if I have to die because some jerk was too hung on ladies. And again, it's not the fault of the ladies, it's the guys.

And other thing, sure, things are more technical. But war is still tough job. When it gets longer and situation are tough, it's very hard, no matter if you have some laser pointers that you can fiddle with. Attitude steps in, and some guys report sick because they're lazy sure.. but I have had the honour of carrying extra vests and bags and guns, you name it, because some ladies didn't have the energy to carry them, because they are heavy and you have to go for a long time. That brings bad blood amongs the men like 'girl can't carry his own stuff' etc. While some men can't do it either, well.. that is still unnecessary bad blood. If I get wounded, I'd like to see the lady who can drag me away with my gear. Sure, there are some who could do that, but most of them can't. So I take the risk of sounding like a bigot, but I'd really hate it and I don't plan on getting to really know about it for real.

I'm sgt, so MANY times I had to straighten some guys out, because their OWN NCO, who happened the be a woman, could not get the authority she needs. Countless times I was being asked, or should I say more like whined 'please come help me, the guys aren't listening, they won't do what I tell them'. So once again you need a guy to do the job. This can happen with men too and it does, but again, why add to the burden?
And again, the real problem is in the guys. But as we are what we are.. hey maybe in the next 50 years, but not now.

Also, it was troubling sometimes to order group of ladies, give them hard time and some extra physical training with motivating loud talking for some men. I didn't have the problem since I'm an ******* no matter what your sex is, if that is needed. But some nco's and even officers had the problem, because they liked their figures and tried to be their friends so they could maybe have sex some day when they're drunk. Well that can't happen. It's just SO much easier when there are just guys. There are lots of jobs that women can do well in the army. I think we should just keep it that way. I'm more old school guy anyway, I guess.

Definitely NOT as combat troopers. I would hate the idea of a lady being my fighting partner when it goes close distance. You can say wars are not like that anymore, but they can be very much so. I want to fight with the best in place next to me, if that is possible, even if it makes me anti-women, what ever I don't care.

[Lancer]

Pekka, yeah, climbing into a 'foxhole' must mean something different to the Finns.

[Pekka]

So making it more short, compact and to the point, Yeah sure, women can be in the military, but not in front line combat IMO. And they MUST have the same requirements as the men do. We have dual standards in physical side, and that can't be right. They must be able to do it like the rest of the guys and not get any extra points because they are women. If they accomplish with the same standards, then sure. But not in front line combat.

[RGBVideo]

And other thing, sure, things are more technical. But war is still tough job. When it gets longer and situation are tough, it's very hard, no matter if you have some laser pointers that you can fiddle with. Attitude steps in, and some guys report sick because they're lazy sure.. but I have had the honour of carrying extra vests and bags and guns, you name it, because some ladies didn't have the energy to carry them, because they are heavy and you have to go for a long time. That brings bad blood amongs the men like 'girl can't carry his own stuff' etc. While some men can't do it either, well.. that is still unnecessary bad blood. If I get wounded, I'd like to see the lady who can drag me away with my gear. Sure, there are some who could do that, but most of them can't. So I take the risk of sounding like a bigot, but I'd really hate it and I don't plan on getting to really know about it for real.

I'm sgt, so MANY times I had to straighten some guys out, because their OWN NCO, who happened the be a woman, could not get the authority she needs. Countless times I was being asked, or should I say more like whined 'please come help me, the guys aren't listening, they won't do what I tell them'. So once again you need a guy to do the job. This can happen with men too and it does, but again, why add to the burden?

...great... attitude... you've got there...

[Pekka]

Lancer,

Or.. Maybe I am the problem.. that could be. I just can't stand any ass checking in training or *** comparing. They should cut off every womens breasts and put sausages in their pants and make them smell bad and look ugly, that would solve the problem.

[Pekka]

Tuome, you don't have to like it. That's the way I feel, and unless my experiences grow more and show otherwise, I'll be willing to change my opinion. I don't like those whiny guys either who don't give their effort. They are worse than the ladies who at least tries, and that usually is enough.

[Ned]

On Rivera's live report today from a city just North of Najaf, there were a bunch of 101st air assault "guys" standing in the Ba'ath parthy HQ. Rivera was interviewing them. At one point, the voice of the soldier he talked to sounded like a woman's voice. I looked closer, and the soldier did indeed look like a woman, lipstick and all. "She" was the tallest person present.

I am not sure of this since the video and audio were both garbage.

All the soldiers were carrying rifles. She definitely looked like a combat trooper.

Was I seeing things? What that really a woman?

Did anyone else see Rivera's report this morning?

[Lancer]

I like sausage though...



The problem, as I've read on these forums, is that Finnish women don't 'sleep' with Finnish men. That may be why your fellow troops are so eversexed...never get any?

Scandinavia must be an odd place...

[Pekka]

Tuomen, and unless you point out what was it I said that you don't agree with, I'll take that as a troll.

Do you agree, that war is physically tough?
Do you agree, that if it gets longer and longer, it's even more tougher, even with modern technology?
Do you agree, that it is more tough for women to get their authority and respect amongst them men, if they are leaders?
Do you agree, that if a woman can't carry her own stuff and some guys have to do it, the men will complain about it, because it's a woman in situation?
I'm 89 kilos heavy, and with full combat gear, wouldn't you agree that most women could not effectively drag me away, or carry me?

What of these you do not agree with me?