Anti-Semitism in France

[Ned]

Spiffor, Good on the racisim issue.

Now, explain why France is dictating morality to the US,to Europe and to Israel? France certainly is not trying to reach a concensus view.

[Drake Tungsten]

I knew a black racist skinhead, that is, racists against other Blacks. He didn't just have issues, he had a whole freakin' subscription.

Was he blind?

[Dom Pedro II]

Was he blind?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Ned
Now, explain why France is dictating morality to the US,to Europe and to Israel? France certainly is not trying to reach a concensus view.

It is purely my opinion, but I think out of habit. French arrogance has for long manifested itself by criticizing the others, rather than boasting our own achievements. There was a thread about jingoism some time ago, and someone had it in few words :

"The Americans argue they are better
The French argue you are worse"

As far as I have seen, this is very true. As far as I recall, the French and their politicians have always enjoyed giving lessons to foreigners (the biggest examples that I can think of were about the election of Haider's party in Austria and the election of Berlusconi in Italy).

There may be complex geopolitical reasons for us to dictate morality to other countries, but I wouldn't be surprised if our ego issues had much to do with it.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Cybergnu: Sorry, but the Israeli/Palestinian issue is hardly a black and white issue. You may see the Jewish position on it as reprehensible, but then many people consider the pro-palestinian position to be reprehensible. The same could apply to any number of issues, many consider the pro-choice position on abortion to be reprehensible and equivalent to supporting mass murder. But people should be able to express their views on any issue without fear of violence.

You picked up my argument where I left off.

[Dinner]

To their credit the anti-semetic attacks which do occur in France don't seem to be coming from traditional "Frenchmen" but from more recent immigraints of middleeastern decent. Arab culture seems to to have an streak of especially virialent racism and xenopobia in it.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Arab culture seems to to have an streak of especially virialent racism and xenopobia in it.

While the antisemitism seems to become part of the Muslim gangsta culture in France and seems to become widely accepted in the Muslim world at large, the Arab culture has no more intrinsic intolerance than the western culture. The extent of intolerance towards others has always been mostly motivated by a political agenda or a historical grudge. Intolerance as such (whatever the extent) exists in every society without exception.

[Dinner]

It exists in every society but you must admite that some societies exhibit it more promenitly then others.

[Spiffor]

Yes, and I admit the muslims are exhibiting their intolerance much more than other societies these days. But such a high intolerance doesn't come from the essence of Islam (or Arabic culture), but from more mundane origins, like politics and history.
My point is : it is possible to adress this intolerance, it's not like the Arabs are doomed to be more intolerant than others until the end of the times.

[Ned]

Spiffor, et al., that the Muslim attacks on Jews are politically motivated is central to our goals in Iraq. We believe a liberal, democratic Iraq will lead to pro-West feelings. Such an Iraq would, I believe, be much more willing to settle with Israel. We "hope" that genuine peace will lead to a dramatic reduction in Muslim anger against Israel and the US.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I knew a black racist skinhead, that is, racists against other Blacks. He didn't just have issues, he had a whole freakin' subscription.

I've been asking my friends about whether they know any story of this kind, and my sister told me that he knew one gypsy skin. Anyway, as you have said, it seems to me that they hate (or act as if they hated), even when they are from other races

In the US, Jews who are critical of Israel are routinely called self-hating Jews.

I can't speak for USA, but I'm pretty sure it's not routine in Europe...

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by Ned
We believe a liberal, democratic Iraq will lead to pro-West feelings

I agree with that, and I think that it's the root of the problems: in my humble opinion, it's commom in oppressive dictatorship like the kinds of dictatorship arabs are suffering rigth know to use the hate against Western socities to make the population lost the focus in the absence of freedom

On the other hand, Turkey (I know it is not a perfect democracy, and they have to solve some points concercing human rigths) has not so much hate, in my humble opinion.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It exists in every society but you must admite that some societies exhibit it more promenitly then others.

The level fo intolerance and violence against others shown in the Arab world are no worse, and in many cases less, than the levels of secterian violence you see in many other parts of the world. What was the last time you saw thousands die in secterian riots in an Arab state?

The causes for these types of violence are not "culturally linked" or culture secific in my view: they are universal, and based on socio-economic variables. Honestly, do you think if all those Arab youths lived in suburban housing and had access to better education and access to jobs that they would behave the same? Very rarely now a days does violence have actual cultural roots, as opposed to political or socio-economic, and ussually such violence is within the group (specially against women).

[Az]

The level fo intolerance and violence against others shown in the Arab world are no worse, and in many cases less, than the levels of secterian violence you see in many other parts of the world. What was the last time you saw thousands die in secterian riots in an Arab state

What was the last time you saw sections in an arab state?

[GePap]

"sections"?

Well, in Egypt you have the Coptic christian minority. In many arab states you have different tribes, and in a few you have the always popular Shia-Sunni split.

The Arab world is no more violent than the rest of the third world that has increasingly been left behind. Which to me is evidence that the source of violence is not, as Oedin would say, something cultural about Arabs, but cause by more universal Political and Socio-economic factors. If that is true, then it is possible to try to limit or end the violnece using soci-economic and political means,without having to worry or demand some tectonic cultural shift.