Anti-Semitism in France

[Menlas]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
True enough. I attended a lecture a while ago about how deep the collaboration with the Nazis actually was, and how much it's been suppressed, which was pretty damn disturbing.

What i wanted to show is that those soldiers who fought agaisnt the allies weren't fundamentally antisemitists or anti-allies...they just had to obey the orders, and the fact that they were given by a former marechal, hero of WW1, was inciting them a bit more.

Same thing for the people in France during WW2 : the majority of them weren't neither heroic resistants, nor collaborationists (which is quite logical after all).

[Az]

I know that. The same could be said of quite a sizeable part of the axis armies. Rommel was not a nazi, for example.

Still, hating the americans because "they didn't risk their lives enough" sound very cheeky.

[Menlas]

Originally posted by Azazel
Still, hating the americans because "they didn't risk their lives enough" sound very cheeky.

Absolutely. to this kind of comment.

[GeneralTacticus]

Sorry, that was in response to Azazel - just that you got yours in before mine and my connection was too slow to do anything until now.

[Az]

Just a bit. ( I've got broadband )

[GeneralTacticus]

Absolutely. to this kind of comment.

While I agree with you, I expect they see it a bit differently. After all, it isn't us who had entire cities flattened in the course of being liberated from occupation.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
Ned: According to my mother, who lived in France for quite a while (along with me, as a matter of fact... but I don't remember very much about it), a prime reason why the French resent Americans was that 'they dropped their bombs from too high'. Apparently the French see this as the Americans not having the balls to risk their pilots in order to save the lives of French people.

This is the first I heard of this. It seems like NAZI propaganda to me. I think the truth is that US bombs were only fairly accurate even given the Norden bombsight.

This kind of propaganda is very reminiscent of Iraqi propaganda that is today broadcast to the Arab world by Arab media as fact. Even after the war is over, it may take a while for the truth to be told to the Arab world. Still, the damage is done and may be permanent.

[Ned]

In contemplating the upcoming battle of Baghdad, I was thinking of what it would have been like had the Nazi's chosen to stand and fight in Rome and Paris. Those beautiful cities would have been destroyed like Warsaw and Berlin were later.

BTW, if the Nazi's take up positions in civilian areas and those civilian areas are destroyed, why is it the Allies fault that they were destroyed. I think the blame should be given to the Nazi's just like they should be given some credit for abandoning Rome and Paris without a fight.

[Az]

While I agree with you, I expect they see it a bit differently. After all, it isn't us who had entire cities flattened in the course of being liberated from occupation.

Gen. Tac.: he's french, you know.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
True enough. I attended a lecture a while ago about how deep the collaboration with the Nazis actually was, and how much it's been suppressed, which was pretty damn disturbing.

It's not like France was alone in cozying up to the master race. http://www.takebackthemedia.com/bushnonazi.html

After the war, we brought hundreds of them back to the United States to help us with our anti-communist crusade.

[chequita guevara]

CBEAST!

[Az]

@that site.

[badman]

Originally posted by Ned
In contemplating the upcoming battle of Baghdad, I was thinking of what it would have been like had the Nazi chosen to stand and fight in Rome and Paris. Those beautiful cities would have been destroyed like Warsaw and Berlin were later.

BTW, if the Nazi's take up positions in civilian areas and those civilian areas are destroyed, why is it the Allies fault that they were destroyed. I think the blame should be given to the Nazi's just like they should be given some credit for abandoning Rome and Paris without a fight.

I agree with you but in contrast to Gulf War II, WWII was a justified war in order to liberate Europe from brutal conquerors who were committing genocide.
Right now, the Americans are the attackers and invasors and the Iraqis are defending their country. Even though I hope the Americans will win the war, I still think that the war is not justified and even if Saddam is a cruel dictator, he was not an immediate threat to the world's peace and it will be impossible to force democracy upon the Iraqis.
So the war is absolutely senseless.

But back to topic: in Germany we do not have problems with violence of Muslims towards Jews since hardly any Jews still live in Germany (sad, but of course I understand why).
But there is a growing tension and resentment between the three large ethincal groups in Germany ("original" Germans, immigrants from Eastern Europe, and immigrants from Arabic countries).
In my opinion this problem is mostly due to the poor integration of the immigrants, many don't even speak German. I also think that Germany has accepted more immigrants than it could handle, we have the largest percentage (and absolute number) of foreigners in Europe (other than small countries like Luxemburg).

We should consider starting to chose our immigrants like the US do.

Yet there are other reasons as well: Some parts of Eastern Germany have really huge problems with Neonazis. The education system of the GDR failed there and since Eastern Germany has an average unemployment rate of about 18%, many teenagers do not have a prospects and are frustrated.
Right-wing parties like the NPD have had a rise in votes in the 90's but right now they are not gaining votes, they actually seem to be losing votes.

Overall I don't think that Europe has a big problem with racism but we must fight the roots of the racism that exists here.

[yaroslav]

Originally posted by CyberGnu


It all depends on how much responsibility you put on waging war by proxy, doesn't it? And if supporting a regime that continally oppresses a group of different ethnicity isn't expressing hate against that group, what is?

I'm not going to discuss about Israel, because it's off-topic to this disscusion. If you want to discuss about it, I'm pretty sure that we will meet in a ME east sooner than later. And there are a lot of people that know much more than I about the topic

True, but does that really matter in this context? If your thesis is that each individual should be counted a separate person, then we must also diffrentiate between skins who are skins because they hate non-aryans, and skins who are skins because they like the music and the parties, who are skins because they feel they need the protection and security afforded by belonging to a strong group, who are skins just to belong to anything...

But if your thesis is that all skins can be counted as a group due to the ideology, then we should also require that the Jewry as a GROUP speaks out against Israel.

I don't like to speak of people as a group, UNLESS we're speaking about the central element of the group, and the central group of skins is to hate non-aryans *** (see note below)

I know that with my English is difficult to understand my points, and even more, I'm not a great orator, but let's explain it with two question:

Would a skin be allowed to stay in a skin group after showing that he/she doesn't hate non-aryans?

Would a jew be not counted as a jew after attacking Israel?

The answer to the first question is yes and to the second no (in my humble opinion). So, it's normal that a muslim (or a jew) could verbally condemn ALL skins, becuase they always attack non-aryans (even when some of them doesn't feel hate towards non-aryans), but it is not fair to speak about jews as a group about Israel, because there are a lot of opinions about that issue in the jew comunity...

*** Note: Spaniards aren't aryans, but our skins doesn't hate white Spaniards: they hate jews, muslims, blacks; that's why I've care about saying that skins hate non-aryans... It varies from country to country, but they always hate the people that is different from the average

[Shi Huangdi]

Cybergnu: Sorry, but the Israeli/Palestinian issue is hardly a black and white issue. You may see the Jewish position on it as reprehensible, but then many people consider the pro-palestinian position to be reprehensible. The same could apply to any number of issues, many consider the pro-choice position on abortion to be reprehensible and equivalent to supporting mass murder. But people should be able to express their views on any issue without fear of violence.