Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway?

[Monk]

Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too?

Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.

[BeBMan]

[Harovan]

Who would expect any logic from a moron like Rumsfeld?

[BeBMan]

Perhaps we could differ a bit: Germany and France are "Very Old Europe", while Scandinavia is "Not So Old Europe". According to Rummy Britain and Spain are probably "Oldie but Goldie".

[Spiffor]

I thought the "old Europe" thing was nothing more than a phrase. I don't think there is any analysis to support the concept. As such, IMO, it is only a shallow terminology to bash France, Germany and Belgium, and to show how isolated and wrong they are.
I am not aware anyone in the White House included Greece, Austria, Sweden or such into the "old Europe". In fact, I think most Bushies have given up the phrase pretty quickly, and it only remained in the media and the public opinion.

[Monk]

Thanks guys. But surely Denmark must be a significantly newer Europe than the rest of the Scandinavians.

While we're at it, does anybody know why the Danish government would send a submarine to assist the coalition in a campaign of desert warfare? It's a serious question.

[Der PH]

Re: Which countries constitute "Old Europe", anyway?

Originally posted by Monk
Now, it's easy to imagine "New Europe" as the Eastern European nations in support of the campaign, but did Rumsfeld or whoever invented the term ever bother to define the golden oldies? France, Germany, those are no-brainers, but are Russia and Sweden "Old Europe" too?

Aznar in Spain is a huge Bush fan and the Danish government has even dispatched some troops (that you'll never hear about). Does this make these countries New Europe or rather not-so-new-but-not-that-Old Europe-either? I don't really like the war but there are American exports at stake here.

I guess in this post you mentioned more European countries than the average American, maybe even Rumsi, knows at all!

[Demerzel]

I think "Old Europe" is any country that doesn't agree with Bush

TBH, I hope we can get past this and have just "Europe" soon.

[Harovan]

Didn't the Spaniards send (among other forces) a submarine too to retake that rock near the Moroccan coast (forgot the name), captured by no less than 12 soldiers?

[Spiffor]

I didn't know they sent a submarine for Persil Island. I thought they only thumped their chest.
What does the Spanish army look like ? I heard it sucks, but it is pure hearsay, and I have no reliable info on it...

[Harovan]

As far as I heard, it was a frigate, a sub and some other fearsome force. Guess a holiday steamer with a platoon of soldiers would have done it too.

[Proteus_MST]

Of course Rumsfeld himself seems to have forgotten that his Family once came from Germany and therefore Old Europe.

Rumsfelds german relatives (to whom he paid occasional visits) weren´t amused about his Statements concerning "Old Europe" and comparing Germany with Libya and Cuba

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0209-02.htm

[oedo]

I´ve read several times, that New Yorck is the US city, where most people oppose the war.
shouldn´t they rename it in Old Yorck then?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Of course Rumsfeld himself seems to have forgotten that his Family once came from Germany and therefore Old Europe.

That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
That's bold. So far I thought, that Germany only imports psychopaths from Austria. Now I learn, that Germany also exports them to America.