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  • #46
    Well.. US is not doing bad. I think it's doing excellent. Casualties are low. At least for now. It's war, it cannot be planned 100%. I'm surprised they're doing so good, and Iraqis so bad, well.. I wasn't expecting heavy resistance but little more casualties by now. Make no mistake, I'm not waiting for US casualties and wishing for it.

    I'm not surprised people get killed in wars?
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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    • #47
      well getting killed is one thing.

      But POW's is terrible. The only POW's I expected were from downed pilots.

      We shouldn't let them get around behind us.

      Comment

      • #48
        POW business is tough sure. But.. it's war.. good thing is though that they showed some POWs and their names, and they were in OK condition. Now they can't hurt them too much. Well if they don't just say they were killed in US air raid or something. But at least they have little life insurance with them now. I'd worry about the POWs we don't know.
        In da butt.
        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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        • #49
          Diss: Weren't you in the military, once upon a time?
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Dissident
            perhaps the U.S. is going too fast.

            We are getting islated convoys ambushed. 12 more missing.

            The U.S. may be screwing this up I'm afraid to admit. I can't believe how many mistakes we are making.

            This is so terrible
            The fact that we're having to take and inflict casualties sucks. The cynic in me believes that these are essentially "programmed" casualties - not intentional, of course, but part of the goal was to move as far and as fast as you could, for as long as you could - how long is that? until you find you don't have effective security zones for your supply movements.

            The way this is shaping up, the Turks did us the biggest favor on the planet by not letting another isolated front and extended supply line get formed. As soon as 4ID and it's supporting troops can transit the Red Sea and the gulf, and get untracked, they'll add a lot of firepower and a lot of density to consolidate what we have, and to break through the Iraqis.

            There are two parts of the chickenhawk plan that have been ****ed up from the beginning - the reliance on simultaneity and unrealist timelines, and the relative isolation of flanking forces and forces on opposite sides of the rivers. We tore off a big chunk of Iraq, we have a lot more space to operate from, but now is the time to slow down, solidify, and let events in the field dictate timing, not someone's concept from Washington of when things should be happening.

            For what we've accomplished so far, casualties have been acceptable - unfortunate, tragic for the families, but in view of the speed and distance and forces engaged, they've been within the limits we were prepared to tolerate.

            But Diss is right here, in the sense that we need to slow it down, consolidate it, and secure our lines of supply. The Iraqis have had years to dig in, extra hours or days won't mean anything here.
            When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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            • #51
              you are right about that. In fact I believe they are already slowing down. We are getting close to bagdhad as well, so we have to slow down.

              I just hope in the future they watch for attacks from the west.

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              • #52
                btw everyone, what do you think is acceptable casualties? Casualties you think still would go as far as the goal is important.

                100? 1000? 10 000? 50 000? more?
                In da butt.
                "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                Comment

                • #53
                  Originally posted by Dissident
                  well getting killed is one thing.

                  But POW's is terrible. The only POW's I expected were from downed pilots.

                  We shouldn't let them get around behind us.
                  107th Panzerbrigade demonstrated how much that can hurt you, back on Hell's Highway.

                  Having supply lines penetrated and supply and follow-on vehicles engaged is going to **** up the timeline for any advance no matter what you do, so you may as well secure your flanks and liquidate or isolate that resistance.
                  When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                  • #54
                    I think something around 1000 would create a serious, 5000 a big political problem for Bush. And I think that is Saddam's only hope.

                    Casualties acceptable for this war? 0.
                    “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Dissident
                      you are right about that. In fact I believe they are already slowing down. We are getting close to bagdhad as well, so we have to slow down.

                      I just hope in the future they watch for attacks from the west.
                      We have forces out there making flank moves to approach Baghdad from the W and WNW. Most of it's pretty open country too - the tough part is the river crossings between east side and west side, because there's good concealment in there, and isolation of forces on one side or another, or in between the rivers, can be real problematic.

                      Pekka - when it's all done, I wouldn't be surprised if US KIA's got as high as 500, although more than 1000 would surprise me. About 10-15 times that many wounded. As far as what's acceptable, well, like it or not, we're committed, and the only way to move is forward. Backing off is unthinkable, so if the Iraqis really decide to tough it out, which I still doubt (once we get all our forces engaged), the only choice will be to pile it on them and kill the bastards.

                      Roland - Saddam has no hope. The only thing worse than a high casualty count for Bush would be backing off and letting Saddam and this regime survive. Bush painted us all into a corner, and the only way out is forward.
                      When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                      • #56
                        "Saddam has no hope."

                        I know. What I meant was that is his hope, not a realistic hope.

                        "Bush painted us all into a corner, and the only way out is forward."

                        A dismal failure of America's political system.
                        “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                        • #57
                          appantly the POW's in question took a wrong turn. So that is partially the reason they were taken.

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                          • #58
                            Different POW's - those were the Army maintenance people from 3 ID. We also have some, and some probable KIA's, plus a bunch of WIA, from 1 MEF around Nasiriyah.
                            When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                            • #59
                              Here's a map that shows (presumably) where the bridge is West of an Nasariya.

                              http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/iraq_wall_full_2003.jpg
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Gangerolf


                                "we'll sell you these tank busters, but please promise you won't kill anybody with them"
                                That's the idea. Civilized countries have weapons to show their teeth, not to actually use them in battle. But as the Swedish prime minister pointed out in a TV interview one hour ago, the weapons export to US and UK will go on. Our defence industry is too much integrated with these countries to stop the cooperation. I don't mind, but the leftist will outrage.
                                So get your Naomi Klein books and move it or I'll seriously bash your faces in! - Supercitizen to stupid students
                                Be kind to the nerdiest guy in school. He will be your boss when you've grown up!

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