No court martial for US pilots who killed four Canadians

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

What I don't understand is the process. I thought the hearing was like a prelim where the court decides if there is enough evidence to warrant a trial. This ended up being a trial of innocence and guilt.

No it didn't. The trial was dismissed and sent to a non-judicial proceeding. That isn't a determinaton of innocence and guilt.

I haven't seen any statements saying there was a lack of evidence. The reports I have seen say that the hearing determined that the pilots were not guilty of manslaughter.

It seems like an odd system to me.

[Asher]

As the news here explained it, the case isn't overwith yet. It's now being sent up the food chain...

[Imran Siddiqui]

I haven't seen any statements saying there was a lack of evidence. The reports I have seen say that the hearing determined that the pilots were not guilty of manslaughter.

If the pilots were ruled not guilty, then the case would not be sent along (that would violate 'double jeopardy')

[notyoueither]

Sent along to where?

[Asher]

Superior officers.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Asher
As the news here explained it, the case isn't overwith yet. It's now being sent up the food chain...

It's not really being passed up the food chain. A decision has been made and now someone has to sign it off.

The ruling could be overturned, but I doubt that will happen.

I still don't understand why there was no trial. There was enough evidence to justify a trial. There were prosecutors saying these men should be put on trial.

So there should be a trial to determine innocence or guilt.

It's all getting swept under the carpet.

[Dis]

Some people seem to be so anti-military they can't accept that mistakes happen.

why are people so anti-military?

What about when school bus drivers fall asleep? You don't see liberal whackos prosecuting them. they get way with murder!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

It's not really being passed up the food chain. A decision has been made and now someone has to sign it off.

WHERE are you getting this from? Really?

There was no trial, the case was dismissed and sent to another court (the non-judicial proceeding), who WILL decide on guilt or innocence.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Like MtG said:

What is being said, in effect, is that a non-judicial proceeding will handle this, rather than a court-martial.

That will most likely mean demotion, forfeiture of pay and benefits, and the pilots separation from military service.

[Pekka]

Wow, looks like I'm in the minority who thinks that they should be punished. Not for murder of course, but involuntary manslaughter or something like that (I don't know how you call it). Key factor here being that they disobeyd orders, which should be very serious thing to begin with. My sense of justice goes that if you disobey clear orders, you pay the price. It's unfortunate, and accident, but if they had obeyd orders like they should have, nothing would have happened. I understand they thought they were in danger, but in reality they weren't. I wonder what kind of practice the canucks where doing that they thought they were being fired at? AA guns? Unlikely... It is unfortunate and they didn't mean to do it, but I don't believe it makes it ok to do that. Because they disobeyd orders. If they didn't have orders, then it would have been ok by me, but they did what they did.. on their own decisions, therefore taking the risk for possible consequences. They could have just take more hight and escape, than to just engage in battle with unknown troops and with unknown everything.

If this is the case, when ever I think I'm in danger in combat zone and I had orders not to engage and I was unsure, I could just unleash hell if I had the option to escape, and then get away with it? At least punishment for not obeying orders, at least.
But this is my opinion and it doesn't make it so.

[Pekka]

But no, no charges for murders or things like that. It still was a combat zone. Maybe dishonorable discharge without any benefits etc is in order. I would not necessarily seek for prison time, because it is still understandable these things happen.

[Dis]

dishonorable discharges aren't given lightly to officers I doubt it would happen.

In any case these guys careers are toast I'm sure.

[Pekka]

This case is not very light?

Toast, I'm sure.. they did drop their loads on allied troops, I'm not sure what dishonorable discharge means in reality there, but I think it's still in order. Though I'm not the one to judge. I don't even know all facts. Basically I'm just running my mouth until someone shuts me up .

But facts are that they disobeyd orders, and people got killed.

[Pekka]

But I feel for these pilots too. They made an honest mistake which costed the lives of allied troops, they must feel like crap for a long time. And it was an accident too. I'm sure if I drive over someone and someone gets killed, I'll be having some tough problems and hard time even without punishment.

[Dis]

I don't know all the facts either

I haven't even paid attention since the even actually happened.

And I'm not sure how the law works here. I do know how military law goes. Although it is slighly different for officers. I was enlisted, and most enlisted just get NJP.