Now that war is assured...

[DinoDoc]

Given the tone of the OP, I'm suprised that this thread has lasted this long.

[Ming]

Don't worry... it probably won't last much longer

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Way to go Sloww, back up the US's hunt for WMD with accounts of the US's own use of WMD...

What a 'smart' way to argue your corner...

If you would occasionally read, and not just talk, you'd see that some people insist that 500,000 Iraqi civilians will be killed.

The point to the numbers I posted, was that 2 atom bombs dropped on Japan killed less than that.

Keep talking though. You're mildly entertaining.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Ming

Hmmm... and those sanctions were put in place why?

Oh... that's right, because Sadam didn't live by the agreements he made when he surrendered...
Some people might think that he is the one responsible for his peoples problems and that maybe he doesn't care what happens to them...

And two wrongs don't make a right. We know he doesn't care about his people, but the effect of these sanctions is also clear that those that put them into place don't either...

The problem about Saddam and Iraq is that there was insufficient follow up - he should have been kicked out in the beginning. Or he should have been hounded from the get go. Nobody, including the US gave enough of a sh*t about him to do the job properly until after 9/11...

When children at school are allowed to run riot at school, who do you blame - the child or the teacher?

[Ming]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
When children at school are allowed to run riot at school, who do you blame - the child or the teacher?

Yeah... the teacher, or in this case Sadam. It was completely up to him to live up to his agreements. And because he didn't, his people are suffering because of it.
He could have stayed in power, and taken care of his people. But instead, he decided that they should suffer because of him. And what little money he did get... he didn't use for his people... just built a few more palaces, rebuilt his army...

[MikeH]

If the kids are out of control and the teacher is to blame do you take away the kids food?

[SlowwHand]

He doesn't lack for palaces, does he ?

[Ming]

Originally posted by MikeH
If the kids are out of control and the teacher is to blame do you take away the kids food?

Sadam is the one taking away their food... He has a choice on what to do with the resources he has. He has decided that His palaces and army come first, and his people last. So place the blame where it belongs

[Japher]

The problem about Saddam and Iraq is that there was insufficient follow up - he should have been kicked out in the beginning. Or he should have been hounded from the get go. Nobody, including the US gave enough of a sh*t about him to do the job properly until after 9/11...

Why are you trying to blame the US for this? Damned if you do, damned if you don't... I guess.

We are warmnongers, right? I really don't think it was our decision, or Bagdad would no be called Disney Sand.

I blame the UN.

[MikeH]

You can't have it both ways, on one hand Saddam is an evil dictator who cares nothing for his own people so we're applying sanctions, on the other we're going to trust him to distrubute food and medicines to the people he cares nothing about.

Great policy. Someone was really thinking logically about that one.

[GePap]

Honestly Ming, why is this thread still open?

The discussion has become Iraq generic, and we have several, sevral threads out on that as is, while the OP and other commnets remain deeply insulting.

This thread has less use than any of those "US girl killed by bulldozer" thread getting axed.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by MikeH
You can't have it both ways, on one hand Saddam is an evil dictator who cares nothing for his own people so we're applying sanctions, on the other we're going to trust him to distrubute food and medicines to the people he cares nothing about.

Great policy. Someone was really thinking logically about that one.

Uhhh, no.
Hussein and Sons go.
We'll distribute the food. That's how that works.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Ming


Yeah... the teacher, or in this case Sadam. It was completely up to him to live up to his agreements. And because he didn't, his people are suffering because of it.
He could have stayed in power, and taken care of his people. But instead, he decided that they should suffer because of him. And what little money he did get... he didn't use for his people... just built a few more palaces, rebuilt his army...

Actually I was thinking of Saddam being the child and the sanction makers being the Teacher, but I also like MikeH's post...

The point is that the sanctions have completely backfired, allowing Saddam to become stronger in relation to any potential internal enemies - you would think that after a year or two of this that the powers that be would have done something about it...?

For that last aspect alone, I would lay the blame firmly at the feet of the sanction makers!

Sadam is the one taking away their food... He has a choice on what to do with the resources he has. He has decided that His palaces and army come first, and his people last. So place the blame where it belongs

Thus proving that sanctions aren't working! Sanctions are to blame for the deaths, Saddam is still taking his cut - there's just less stuff to go around...

We know sanctions are working and people are dying - therefore those that put them into place are responsible for the deaths!

[Ming]

Oh... so the alternative was to allow him to have even more money... which by your own comments would have only meant that he had more money to spend on palaces and his army

As you admit, he doesn't care about his own people... so the sanctions have only really limited the number of new palaces and his army

[MikeH]

Originally posted by SlowwHand Uhhh, no.
Hussein and Sons go.
We'll distribute the food. That's how that works.

Oh of course, the sanctions are only useful as a way to encourage the people of Iraq to rebel against Saddam. I appreciate that.

Sanctions are killing people in Iraq because Saddam is in power. It's the direct combination of Saddam and Sanctions. You can't say one or the other is to blame, it's the combination.