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DAVOUT: "raise a problem" is putting it much more delicately than it was in actual fact. 
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I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891 -
"I think we're on sufficient legal ground."
No. This war is illegal. The legal grounds that are paraded around are bollocks, from 1441 to reuming hostilities after a ceasefire.
"That's being ignored, not being stabbed in the back..."
Aha. When France works against a war that the US government wants for some bizarre reason, it's stabbing the US in the back. When the US starts a war that goes directly against France's interests (not just economical, even more security related), it's just ignoring France.
You have mastered the jingoistic double standard close to perfection.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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No. This war is illegal. The legal grounds that are paraded around are bollocks, from 1441 to reuming hostilities after a ceasefire.
Bull****.
When France works against a war that the US government wants for some bizarre reason, it's stabbing the US in the back.
France acted like they were willing to compromise when they signed 1441. Then, when the US came back for the second resolution that France had requested, France refused to even consider the use of military force. That's a backstab...KH FOR OWNER!
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GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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The legal grounds that are paraded around are bollocks, from 1441 to reuming hostilities after a ceasefire.
Why's that? Seriously, talk of illegality has died down over the last couple of days, just as the illigitimacy argument has been trumpeted (this is debatable, IMO). None of the US or Brit legal scholars are saying it's illegal.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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What do you know about international law, Mausi?
As for evil France, the US never considered a peaceful solution. The NY Times has a realistic asessment of how the diplomacy around 1441 went.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Dan:
"None of the US or Brit legal scholars are saying it's illegal."
That's not correct, it just does not get reported. The Media are now out there for blood, not for legal briefs.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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All this mean that it is now extremely dangerous to discuss with the US. If you say anything different of YES, you are subject to a trial of intent against which there is no possible end.Statistical anomaly.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.Comment
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The Media are now out there for blood, not for legal briefs.
This might well be true. However, the UK Attorney General has said that it is legal based upon past resolutions. That's why we backed off of the new resolution that was going to be vetoed or voted down.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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The UK attorney general is a government official. Do you think everything is legal that Ashcroft says is legal?
The new resolution was withdrawn for political, not legal reasons.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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The new resolution was withdrawn for political, not legal reasons.
That's not what I've been hearing...KH FOR OWNER!
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GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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Do you think everything is legal that Ashcroft says is legal?
Of course not. But there is no adjudicatory body competent to answer these specific questions, so the UK Attorney General will have to do.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Oh, nice to see that - after coming back from a short trip into real life - this thread has turned mainly into one of these great Euro-US bashing parties....
Well, when you are over the whining about the simple fact that other countries have different opinions (and they even express them - shocking!) about a certain issue you could try to define "friendship" for me. I certainly would never expect from my friends that they only do things I want them to do - but that is actually what you demand. IMO this has nothing to do with being allied, or even "friends".There's a huge difference between not backing a war and actively opposing the US on it. France and Germany stopped being our friends months ago and are little better than Russia, China and Syria in my book. When you actively oppose the US, you make yourself our enemies...BlahComment
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I certainly would never expect from my friends that they only do things I want them to do - but that is actually what you demand.
Bull****. I've already said that I don't have any problem with our allies expressing their disagreement or not supporting us; it's when they go from disagreement to active opposition that I have a problem. It's like the difference between warning or avoiding a friend because of their drug use and turning them into the police. Friends don't do the latter...KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!Comment
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Like it or not, other countries have every right to act that way. Your country acts in his own interests, so don´t complain if others do the same. If you think that is enough to declare them enemies, well, then let´s hope your political leaders are somewhat wiser, because the world would become a quite cold place with so much enemies around....Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
... it's when they go from disagreement to active opposition that I have a problem...BlahComment
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Like it or not, other countries have every right to act that way.
Sure they do. But would consider them an ally afterwards?
France isn't our enemy.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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