Iraqi soldiers already surrendering -- oops.

[Grandpa Troll]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Iraqi soldiers already surrendering -- oops.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Or, a nice way to pull off a recon mission.

If it were a Recon Mission MtG then it would probably go something like this:

Wait, I Dont speak Iwaqee..so..I will call upon an Actress..maybe Judy "Dorothy" Garland as The General of Yellow Brick Road to Bagdad, assistant to Saddam "Scare Crow" Hussein....

Saddam: (In a Cary Grant vein)


Judy Judy Judy what news from those recon missions?


Judy "Dorothy" Garland: ( In her best Wizard of Oz scared-2-death-tone)


Lions & Tigers & Bears...OH MY!!!!!

Ok..thats what they would say to start..

Mayber under Hypnosis.....a response like this:

Guns Guns and More Bigger Guns!!



Grandpa Troll

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Lancer
Poor fellas. Tired and hungry, at the very least they don't support Saddam...yet they can't get away from the attack. They will either be killed going back, or likely bombed in the opening phase, when all they want to do is surrender.

The first day should be just leaflets, 'the war has started, surrender now'. Maybe the killing could be partially avoided.

First sensitive post from you for a long time....

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Agathon
Remember that it was an American official who said, not long before Pearl Harbour, that the Japanese wouldn't be able to engage in air combat because their "slitty eyes" wouldn't be able to line up the sights properly.

This is just another in a long history of the underestimation of military opponents. Let's wait and see....

On the other hand, we HAVE fought the Iraqis before, and we do KNOW what they are capable of.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Lonestar


On the other hand, we HAVE fought the Iraqis before, and we do KNOW what they are capable of.

I take it you missed my first post on this thread. The Iraquis whom we "fought" (which means "we" buried them alive, shot them in the back as they ran and watched them surrender in droves) last time were mainly conscripts. Saddam by and large kept his elite units out of it.

[Az]

Erm, Actually, when the Americans did engage the republican guard, they made little impression. But then there is also the Special Republican Guard.

But there won't be many of them.

[Odd]

Does anyone remember how fierce and fanatical Afghans would bury themselves in the mountain and cause a Vietnam II?

[SlowwHand]

Agathon, you're full of beans.
Iraqi soldiers surrendered by the hundreds.
I don't know where you get your propaganda.

Think about it a minute.
Here are these soldiers, conscripts, who Hussein throws in front of the mightiest military assemblage imagineable.
You think the average Iraqi soldier wnats that? To die for Hussein?
No.

Just average Iraqi's, ground down on by a madman.

[srholmes]

Originally posted by Oerdin


If you are wearing a military uniform then you are by definition a legal combatant.

Is this true? Could, say, the IRA, or Hamas, or Al-Qaeda just put on a military uniform? Or have I missed some important, obvious, point, such as the support of an internationally recognised state?

[curtsibling]

The Baathist guard are only special because they are as well-equipped as the standard NATO troops.

However, they are not elite.
The SAS, Delta and Foreign Legion are elite forces.

The rank and file Iraqi troops are conscripts and of lesser military value.

Compared to the Baath Guard, the Allied armies are well-equipped, have air superiority and are extremely formidable.
I foresee nothing even close to 100 casualties for our men.

But curse Saddam to hades for what he is about to put his army through, his stubborn arrogance disgusts me.

A lot of men are going to die for nothing.

[Felch]

Originally posted by srholmes
Is this true? Could, say, the IRA, or Hamas, or Al-Qaeda just put on a military uniform? Or have I missed some important, obvious, point, such as the support of an internationally recognised state?

If they wore uniforms then they would be legitimized, at least to that extent. If they wore uniforms, and persisted in committing war crimes, then there would still be a problem.

However, rebels who obey the laws of war and wear uniforms should be given the proper rights of legitimate combatants. Few countries would be willing to grant them, but that's the difference between the ideal and real world.

[SlowwHand]

Saw a picture in the newspaper of an Iraqi family going through emergency drill.

Two strange things.

1) The man had on a gas mask.
Wonder who's anticipating using gas?

2) The woman and girl had no such mask.

[faded glory]

agathon. The IRG didnt have a chance. And we didnt just engage 'rabble' conscripts. What have you been smoking? The left hook through the desert ran head long into 4 of the 7 Iraqi Republican Gaurd divisions (Tala****a, Hammurabai, and Hussien).Contrary to popular belief only shattered remnants of the IRG escaped Kuwait, the rest were sitting in Baghdad. Anyway, all 4 divisions were massacred and some 900 Iraqi
T-72's, BMP's, and other vehicles were blown to hell at the loss of 11 Coalition AFV's and 2 deaths. Just to prove my point, A story about some 30 British Scimitar's armed with only 30mm cannons destroyed some 60 Iraqi tanks manned by RG forces.

The IRG is over-rated. Sure they fought better than the conscripts. But that isnt much of an improvement considering the conscripts didnt fight at ALL.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by srholmes
Is this true? Could, say, the IRA, or Hamas, or Al-Qaeda just put on a military uniform? Or have I missed some important, obvious, point, such as the support of an internationally recognised state?

You have to wear a recognizable uniform and serve as part of a nations armed forces to be defined as a legal combatant. Thus in the Vietnamese war NVA were legal combatants but viet cong were not. The U.S. did treat captured viet cong like POWs but this was mainly a public relations tool. The legally could have been summarially shot as spies since they were combatants dressed as civilians.

[orange]

no no, you can't surrender to us now. We have to kill you in 2 weeks.

[Agathon]

This is all speculation. In the first Gulf War the Iraquis didn't really want to fight. The RG were supposed to get the hell out of the way as fast as they could.

Mentioning special forces like the SAS is a bit ridiculous since there aren't many of them and they aren't regular units.

We shall see about the RG. I have a policy of not believeing Gulf War propaganda, based on talking to people who were there.

Anyway, the interesting stuff happens the day after the war ends. Every Iraqui with a gun and a grudge against the US is going to go shooting. And it looks like being a target rich environment.