France busts deficit limit

[Odin]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The French don't spend much on farm subsidies at all. They have the Germans and British pay those.

Oh, Thats right. I still hate farm subsidies though, even though I am a commie.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The single best thing which Europe and the U.S. can do to help each other would be to make an agreement eliminating the fat subsidies they are giving to inefficient farmers. Those fat cats should have to sink or swim just like the rest of us without cushy government hand outs.

You are so correct!!!

[DanS]

Those fat cats should have to sink or swim just like the rest of us without cushy government hand outs.

I'm sure most of us get cushy government hand outs of one sort or another.

[DuncanK]

If you want to stop farm subsidies you are going to have to stop food stamps. I don't think many people are going to support that except several libertarians here

[Odin]

Originally posted by DuncanK
If you want to stop farm subsidies you are going to have to stop food stamps. I don't think many people are going to support that except several libertarians here

In food stamps the people are poor, they can't feed thier fammilies. I just don't think people should be paid to stay in something that is not productive, it is just like giving a blacksmith money to do things the inefficient way instead of using mass production. Private or, preferibly, government agribussinesses can buy the high-tech combines, aqueduct systems, and high yield hybrid crops without going into debt. I should know, many of my classmates are farm kids.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DuncanK
If you want to stop farm subsidies you are going to have to stop food stamps. I don't think many people are going to support that except several libertarians here

Duncan: That is absolute rubbish. We can continue to provide to the poor without giving welfare checks to the rich. Most farmers own land that is worth millions yet I am supposed to cry for them when they cannot sell corn as cheaply as a starving African? Let the market decide which farmer is better and let the government stop giving farmers money just so they can win political support. The truth is the average western consumer pays twice for all the food he eats; once when he buys the food and another when the fat farmer gets his welfare check for not farming.

That's right they get paid to do nothing. Why is it single mothers get *****ed at for accepting government checks while not working but farmers who fallow fields (read: sit on their asses doing nothing) are entitled to welfare checks? These bastards are just sucking up welfare and they need to be kicked off.

[DarthVeda]

Chirac and Schroeder sure are awesome leaders...

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Odin


In food stamps the people are poor, they can't feed thier fammilies. I just don't think people should be paid to stay in something that is not productive, it is just like giving a blacksmith money to do things the inefficient way instead of using mass production. Private or, preferibly, government agribussinesses can buy the high-tech combines, aqueduct systems, and high yield hybrid crops without going into debt. I should know, many of my classmates are farm kids.

I agree, just pointing out that food stamps are farm subsidies too.

[Dinner]

It is one thing to give subsidies to millionares and it is another thing to give subsidies (food stamps) to poor welfare moms. I don't see giving food to the need as a subsidy to farmers while giving millionare landowners a susidy to not farm is certainly wrong.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Oerdin
It is one thing to give subsidies to millionares and it is another thing to give subsidies (food stamps) to poor welfare moms. I don't see giving food to the need as a subsidy to farmers while giving millionare landowners a susidy to not farm is certainly wrong.

Because the farmers get paid by the government for what they would otherwise not be paid for by the free market.

[Dinner]

No, they get paid by the government to not farm because other wise there would be an over supply of farm good and then politicians wouldn't be reelected by upset farmers. The market would continue to pay them exactly what they were worth but the farmers wouldn't get what they wanted so the government is forced (by spineless **** sucking politicians) to make up the difference and then some.

[DuncanK]

Originally posted by Oerdin
No, they get paid by the government to not farm because other wise there would be an over supply of farm good and then politicians wouldn't be reelected by upset farmers. The market would continue to pay them exactly what they were worth but the farmers wouldn't get what they wanted so the government is forced (by spineless **** sucking politicians) to make up the difference and then some.

I'm not in disagreement with you. Just stating that there are good and bad subsidies and that food stamps are a good farm subsidy.

[DanS]

You should always try to keep your deficit less than economic growth. That way, your overall debt keeps decreasing as a percentage of your economy and doesn't get out of hand. This 3% deficit guideline in the Stability Pact is a pretty good one, because it approximates economic growth in a good economic year. The business cycle is already built into it.

France's and Germany's deficits are well above their economic growth rate (by several percentage points), which doesn't make it look good at all. Further, France won't have too many years of economic growth that are sufficient to cover a 3.4% shortfall.

All of this said, this has to be put into perspective. Japan is running a ~7% of economy deficit, and is growing at less than a 1% rate. Japan's debt is astoundingly huge, which everybody will be paying for in one way or another in the years to come.

The US deficit will likely stay roughly within its economic growth rate, even with Bush's tax cuts and a war added in. It has done this so far, even with the first round of tax cuts and a recession, which indicates that Bush isn't really skating on thin ice.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I wonder why people think farm subsidies intended purpose was to pay rich farmers. The whole reason was so that individual small farmers wouldn't have to fold and sell to the agribusinesses.

[Ted Striker]

Ya exactly.

Farm Aid. (singers like John Couger, Willie Nelson, raising money for family farms, etc.)