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The criminalization of opinion in Britain.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by paiktis22
    The laws then.

    Do these laws allow the British government to arrest a person based on wether his books' opinions please or do not please the "laws" of your parliamentary monarchy?

    Your "laws" have thepower to determine what one can and cannot read and if he does he is to be arrested and face the propability of 10 years in jail?
    Yes we have laws, it isn't matter of his opinions. It is a criminal offence to incite of facilitate terrorism, if he just has oipinins he will be found not guilty. Which bit of this do you disagree with.

    People do not get arrested for their opinions, the medis over here would go absolutley beserk if that happened.
    Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
    Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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    • #62
      We already know that this guy is a terrorist sympathizer, so we know that he isn't just "someone with a book".

      And you have been given several other possible factors that might apply.

      And we don't even know if he will go to jail anyhow.

      But you prefer to believe that anyone with a "politically incorrect" book can be thrown into prison.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by paiktis22


        Another interesting matter then: In Britain you can be arrested for not having done anything? And that is perfectly ok?
        Don't you think it leaves your country wide open for arbitrary prosecussions of opinions? (which are a democratic right in most european countries).
        In the UK there has to resonable suspicion that you have commited or inten to commit an offence to be arrested. Seems fair enough.

        What is the criteria for arrest where you are
        Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
        Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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        • #64
          Originally posted by TheStinger


          Yes we have laws, it isn't matter of his opinions. It is a criminal offence to incite of facilitate terrorism, if he just has oipinins he will be found not guilty. Which bit of this do you disagree with.
          So having opinions and books can be charged as facilitating terrorism in Britain and that is prosecutable all by itself and perfecty OK in your "democratic" culture?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by paiktis22
            The laws then.

            Do these laws allow the British government to arrest a person based on wether his books' opinions please or do not please the "laws" of your parliamentary monarchy?

            Your "laws" have the power to determine what one can and cannot read and if he does he is to be arrested and face the propability of 10 years in jail?
            Absolutely... If the books have enough specificity to facilitate or encourage criminal acts.

            Also, possession of any book, not necessarily illicit (in and of itself) in nature, may support other parts of a larger prosecution, if it is relevent to proving intent, among other things.

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            • #66
              no Paiktis they can't. but having materials that facilitate terrorism can result in charges
              Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
              Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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              • #67
                You don't need absolute proof that a crime has been commited to arrest someone, and put them on trial... merely a reasonable perception that they could be in violation of a law, given a broad interpretation. Its up to the court to decide whether an actual crime has taken place.

                Another interesting matter then: In Britain you can be arrested for not having done anything? And that is perfectly ok?
                This is becoming increasingly surreal...

                In Greece, you can't be arrested unless it's already been proved that you are guilty of a crime? How does that work? The police decide who is guilty, then they're thrown into prison without trial?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by TheStinger


                  In the UK there has to resonable suspicion that you have commited or inten to commit an offence to be arrested. Seems fair enough.
                  So a person who believes that 17N performed political crimes and is not a terrorist organization is automatically a criminal based on your "laws"?

                  And his opinion and books can get him arrested, detained and face a trial with a maximum sentence of 10 years in jail?

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                  • #69
                    There's a difference between "arrested" and "convicted" paiktis. At the moment the only thing we know is that he is a known terrorist sympatizer with at the very least some books he shouldn't have (and probably other stuff as well), which in my mind is enough to take someone in for questioning and depending on the circumstances charged.

                    Only once the jury decides that the suspect is not innocent is he guilty and convicted, until then he'll just have to live at Her Majesty's pleasure until the end of his trial.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by lightblue
                      There's a difference between "arrested" and "convicted" paiktis.
                      Of course there is.
                      So in Britain a man can be arrested based on what he believes and remain in her majesty's pleasure (???) then taken to trial and face a 10 year imprisonment. Is that what you're saying here?

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                      • #71
                        An opinion about terrorism, all on its own isn't enough for an arrest, but ANY amount of preparation regarding terrorism, is grounds for prosecution AS a terroristic act.

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                        • #72
                          Let's get this straight. In the UK you can be arrested before it is decided you have committed a crime. The police arrest someone, the the Crown Prosecution Service (aka the case droppers ) decide if there is enough evidence to go to court. If not, the person is released. If there is then a court will hear the case and a jury will decide guilt or innocence. That is the point where it is decided a crime has actually been committed. That is how english, and many other countries, law works.

                          The court decides on the basis of the law as set out by a majority vote of a freely elected parliament.

                          Where is the problem?

                          They don't often arrest people for the fun of it in the UK - there are too many lawyers willing to take up cases for wrongful arrest and to seek compensation so they must have had a pretty good reason for picking on this guy.
                          Never give an AI an even break.

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                          • #73
                            Paiktis, anyone who is arrested can apply for bail, howver in terror cases this is likley to be denied. This is usual in most cases
                            Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                            Douglas Adams (Influential author)

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Does anyone believe Paiktis is winning this argument
                              Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
                              Douglas Adams (Influential author)

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by CerberusIV
                                They don't often arrest people for the fun of it in the UK - there are too many lawyers willing to take up cases for wrongful arrest and to seek compensation so they must have had a pretty good reason for picking on this guy.
                                And that is that his opinions do not please the crown?

                                And since your "laws" allow that, how can your police be prosecuted for wrongful arrest? Since it seems that having an opinion and some books are enough for a "legal" (in Britain) arrest?

                                Was the man who wrote 1984 british BTW?

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