Bus exploded in Haifa

[Sirotnikov]

Sandman - It's interesting. Even I, a wizard of information, couldn't find the secret plans made by the Israeli government for settlement expansion.

Where and how did you locate them? Via spies?


Btw, a friend of a friend is missing. Her parents went to the hospital to see if she's among the injured or dead....

[Sirotnikov]

A girl from my school is missing. Her parents went to identify bodies..

[Arrian]

That sucks. Hope she's ok.

-Arrian

[Panag]

Originally posted by Sandman
Another pointless attack that will set back the peace process. The Palestinians should restrict their attacks to military targets.

I also condemn the new Israeli government's settlement expansion plans. They should dismantle all the settlements immediately.

the pal's should not do any attacks at all , ....... regardless of military or not

[KrazyHorse]

You're right, they should let Israel have a free hand in tossing them out, knocking down their houses, etc. like a good little subject people.

[Sirotnikov]

That sucks. Hope she's ok.

She isn't. She's not listed as an injured person. Meaning either she's a fatality or she's just missing.

She's probably a fatality.

May god rest her soul and avenge her death.


Frogger - If arabs stopped trying to kill us, why would we need to toss them out, knock their houses down and such?

we don't need any subjects. but we won't hesitate harassing enemies.

[KrazyHorse]

"Frogger - If arabs stopped trying to kill us, why would we need to toss them out, knock their houses down and such?"

Why did you build settlements?

[Az]

A girl from my school is missing. Her parents went to identify bodies..

Holy ****....

[KrazyHorse]

Before anybody gets on my ass, I don't see bombings of civilian targets acceptable or legitimate...

[Sandman]

I also condemn the new Israeli government's settlement expansion plans.

Sandman - It's interesting. Even I, a wizard of information, couldn't find the secret plans made by the Israeli government for settlement expansion.

I hereby retract this section of my post.

[Sirotnikov]

I hereby retract this section of my post.

But then again, I'm sure it probably has such plans
I was just nitpicking

Actually on a serious note - sharon can actually be the first to evacuate several settlements. I think it will happen somewhere around a year and a half from now. Mark my words.

Why did you build settlements?

Because prior to the jordanian conquest of the west bank, in 1948, there were jewish settlements there.

The Jews were displaced from there via war (1948) and organized violence (1920, 1921, 1929, 1935) which IMO constitutes ethnic cleansing.

And then there's that thing of bargaining cards. It's not very nice - but still - since the starting point of the Arabs was the entire land of Israel, we had to move it somehow to a more comfortable position - now it's the 1967 territories.

Before anybody gets on my ass, I don't see bombings of civilian targets acceptable or legitimate...

Ok, agreed.

But where's the fine line?

Is national infrastructure which supplies both civil and miltiary needs fair play?

As I said, I think it's legitimate (though not always justified) to target such installations.

However, I think that civilian loss should be minimized. This is the difference between measured war, and all out terror.

[KrazyHorse]

Because prior to the jordanian conquest of the west bank, in 1948, there were jewish settlements there.

The Jews were displaced from there via war (1948) and organized violence (1920, 1921, 1929, 1935) which IMO constitutes ethnic cleansing.

And then there's that thing of bargaining cards. It's not very nice - but still - since the starting point of the Arabs was the entire land of Israel, we had to move it somehow to a more comfortable position - now it's the 1967 territories.

Hey, Siro: I wouldn't bring up pre-1948 borders and who moved who out of where if I were you.

Jews were by far the minority even in most parts of Israel proper prior to 1948. The settlement activities are/were a barefaced attempt to assert ethnic supremacy over parts of militarily occupied land.

You had 30 years in the Occupied Territories and instead of planning an exit strategy you built settlement upon settlement until they now constitute 5% of Israel's population. Israel claims that its millitary activities in the Territories are to prevent terrorist activities, and that once attacks against it stop it will begin good faith negotiations. In reality this works out to a stalling tactic, guaranteeing Israel's military presence in perpetuity.

Israel has taken a unilateralist stance when it comes to interventionism in the Occupied Territories. Very well, but this means it must also unilaterally move towards peace. It does not recognise the current PA as sovereign over its own territory, but continues to insist that its hands are tied until the PA changes its stance.

If you do not recognise your negotiating partner then you cannot harangue them for failing their obligations.

You've failed for 30 years to accomplish your stated aims of withdrawing from the Territories and guaranteeing the safety and security of Israel's borders, despite having the absolute supremacy of forces in the area. Forgive the rest of the world when we're skeptical as to your motivations.

[Jaguar]

Y'hay sh'lama raba meen sh'maya v'cha-yim aleynu v'al kol Yisrael, ve'imru amen.
O'seh shalom beem-romav, hoo ya'ah-seh shalom aleynu v'al kol Yisrael, ve'imru amen.

May there be peace and life for all of us and for all Israel. Let us say, Amen.
Let He who makes peace in the heavens, grant peace to all of us and to all Israel. Let us say, Amen.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Frogger

Because prior to the jordanian conquest of the west bank, in 1948, there were jewish settlements there.

The Jews were displaced from there via war (1948) and organized violence (1920, 1921, 1929, 1935) which IMO constitutes ethnic cleansing.

And then there's that thing of bargaining cards. It's not very nice - but still - since the starting point of the Arabs was the entire land of Israel, we had to move it somehow to a more comfortable position - now it's the 1967 territories.

Hey, Siro: I wouldn't bring up pre-1948 borders and who moved who out of where if I were you.

Jews were by far the minority even in most parts of Israel proper prior to 1948. The settlement activities are/were a barefaced attempt to assert ethnic supremacy over parts of militarily occupied land.

You had 30 years in the Occupied Territories and instead of planning an exit strategy you built settlement upon settlement until they now constitute 5% of Israel's population. Israel claims that its millitary activities in the Territories are to prevent terrorist activities, and that once attacks against it stop it will begin good faith negotiations. In reality this works out to a stalling tactic, guaranteeing Israel's military presence in perpetuity.

Israel has taken a unilateralist stance when it comes to interventionism in the Occupied Territories. Very well, but this means it must also unilaterally move towards peace. It does not recognise the current PA as sovereign over its own territory, but continues to insist that its hands are tied until the PA changes its stance.

If you do not recognise your negotiating partner then you cannot harangue them for failing their obligations.

You've failed for 30 years to accomplish your stated aims of withdrawing from the Territories and guaranteeing the safety and security of Israel's borders, despite having the absolute supremacy of forces in the area. Forgive the rest of the world when we're skeptical as to your motivations.

"occupied territory" , ....

well lets say canada grabs new york state , the us liberates it twenty years later , ...... its not occupied then by the us is it , ........

why do we have to give up more for a cause that is not doing us anygood , ......

[MRT144]

because if you dont panag, the suffering will continue