Even the realpolitik types have had enough

[OneFootInTheGrave]

And Lancer's response shows what is the consequence of being honest in US politics today.

If you go against the flow with good and valid reasons resignation is not enough you should "lose your citizenship" man U are scary.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lancer
If the invasion of France was on, but all the soldiers decided they didn't agree with the policy of their government, quit and issued a statement against the policy of the president, then France would be part of Nazi Germany today.

If German ambassadors/officials had spoken out more in protest against their own country's militancy, perhaps WWII would have been far shorter or never have happened, thus saving millions of lives.

Nowhere is a U.S. Ambassador obligated to toe the line if he believes his government is in the wrong, which is why he resigned.

[Lancer]

"One Foot In the Grave" man, you are not "scary". Can you not concieve of the difference between the rights of a citizen to free speech and the duty of a public servant?

[The Mad Monk]

He has voiced his dissent in an appropriate manner. Even though I disagree with him, I must respect that.

[Lancer]

MM, how do you see his manner of dissent as "appropriate"?

We have Carter and Clinton voicing disagreement with the policy of the sitting pres, now this...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lancer
MM, how do you see his manner of dissent as "appropriate"?

We have Carter and Clinton voicing disagreement with the policy of the sitting pres, now this...

See the First Ammendment.

[The Mad Monk]

He just threw away his professional life to make that statement. He didn't just shoot off his mouth and go hide behind his tenure, he didn't write some anonymous piece in the papers, he resigned. That is what an honorable man does when he no longer believes in what he is doing.

[Lancer]

MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission... This guy threw it all away, sure...but maybe he didn't have what it took to begin with. Maybe he went to a euro capitol ready to be influenced by an anti American philosophy...the same philosophy that turns so many...

I guess I'm just sick of it. This guy had a job, that job was to serve America. America is its people, its people support the president and the invasion of Iraq, this guy activly undermined that...

I'm just sick of it. I'm angry. I want to serve again.

I'd guess many an old legionaire wantef to serve Rome before the fall, watched the decay...hated it. It's moral decay.

[Lancer]

Speaking of which, here's Boris!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lancer
MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission... This guy threw it all away, sure...but maybe he didn't have what it took to begin with. Maybe he went to a euro capitol ready to be influenced by an anti American philosophy...the same philosophy that turns so many...

Oh please. Since about 40-45% (and this is just by recent polls) of Americans don't believe in the war, should they be stripped of their citizenship, too? Do you understand what Democracy is?

In fact, when polls give Americans realistic scenarios for the war (like Iraqi civilian casualties), the support flip-flops. Only in the fantasy scenario of us walking in without a fight does America BELIEVE in this mission.

And guess what? They don't believe in it without international support!

So you can stop making BAMs about what Americans BELIEVE. Or you can at least tell us why a public servant can't resign in protest if what he believes conflicts with what his government/country believes.

[Lancer]

How did I know? Well it isn't gaydar.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lancer
How did I know? Well it isn't gaydar.

Considering I've been posting in response to your nonsense several times before that in this thread, and you've ignored it, I don't think you should set up a psychic hotline just yet.

[Lancer]

"I don't think you should set up a psychic hotline just yet"

Boris, I see this as common ground.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Lancer
MM, sure, but in the face of public support for the policy that is his cause? America BELIEVES in this mission....

So GW Bush administration is America?

Sound like Cesar is Rome and Rome is Cesar to me... not very democratic... as MM said he did a very honorable thing and if there was more people in politics like him we would be living in a better world.

and what about the rights of the public servants?

Are they all meant to be GW Bush clones?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Lancer
How did I know? Well it isn't gaydar.

Oh how I laughed, Lancer. When your arguments are blown away in the lightest zephyr, you go the 'ad hominem' route.

'America believes in this mission'- just do an instant poll did you? Quite a few Americans believe they've been abducted by aliens, and some believe that Europe is in Africa- I wouldn't trust to those kind of 'beliefs' to bolster your position.

One government is not America: one policy does not define America.