Iraq agrees to destroy missiles

[MichaeltheGreat]

Yeah, that interview was great! I think he'd whip Bush's ass in the debate though, because Saddam is part used car salesmen and part of him belongs somewhere in Wonderland.

Frogger - the frothing at the mouth folks are right on this one. This is classic Saddam waffling at the last minute. We agree in principle to destroy them, but we need to set up some meetings to talk about how. And meanwhile, do nothing.

If there was any witnessing/destruction protocols to really discuss, the Iraqis could at least demonstrate a real intent to comply by agreeing to immediate disassembly of the missiles, and inviting the inspectors to tag and inventory the disassembled components, pending discussions on what constituted acceptable verified destruction.

They're not doing that, of course, because Hussein's gamble is that he can keep the missiles available for use, while going through the motions of talking about destroying them.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Frogger
It'd be funny if it weren't going to end up with so many dead Iraqis.

I find this darkly amusing. I suppose it's worse that "x" number of innocent Iraqis may die in the next few weeks or months — y'know, a "bubble" of deaths, so to speak — than if they were to die in smaller increments over the following months and years due to Saddam's machinations within and without Iraq.

Same amount of dead people, just differing on when they'll die, at whose hands they will die at, and whether or not there will be that nasty "bubble" of deaths.

Speaking generally, has *anyone* come up with a better way to remove Saddam from power — along with his sycophants — other than a U.S. led invasion? Hmm? Seems like I remember no one ever came up with a better way to get rid of the Taliban, either.

Gatekeeper

[Dinner]

CNN reported that Saddam has agreed to destroy the missles in principle but has not agreed on any time table or manner in which the missles are to be destroyed. In other words Saddam is continueing to say he is complying but is refusing to actually comply. Nothing has changed he is still the same liar he has always been.

[Ned]

All I see is that Saddam is a master at dividing the free world into warring camps. The wounds we are inflicting on ourselves will last. In the end, Saddam will be gone, but the world will not be the better off because of this.

[Jac de Molay]

Yeah, that interview was great! I think he'd whip Bush's ass in the debate though, because Saddam is part used car salesmen and part of him belongs somewhere in Wonderland.

Oh, come on. A mental giant like George W. should have no problem manhandling Saddam. I mean, really.

I say let Saddam set his own trap with his constant obfuscation. The world looks negatively at the Bush war effort because of his constant bellicose chest-thumping. But perceptions can change given enough time and pressure. Consider this latest round just another building block, and move slooooowly and deliberately.

[DarthVeda]

Well, if we can get saddam to comply without military force, that'd be great. We can avoid like a million problems caused by an attack against and occupation of Iraq.

Unfortunately I think Saddam is about as trustworthy as ever. As soon as the inspectors leave, he'll go right back to work with everything he's managed to keep hidden.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Frogger

Chile - which is working closely with another non-permanent member of the UN Security Council, Mexico - says it wants a solution which includes short and specific timetables to complete the inspections

The proposal they're studying appears to be Canadian. It's already been rejected by both the Americans and the French. That means it's on the right track...

Just cause its regected no doesnt mean it may not be important later - both sides are waiting on the Blix report, seeing how the conflicting pressures on the undecided works out. I for one, thought this was a genuine attempt by Canada to be helpful, and i appreciate it. OTOH the recent news that Iraq is repositioning forces from the north to the Bagdad/Tikrit region indicates that time is of the essence, and it may not be worth a 2 to 3 week delay to ease the diplomatic situation.

[KrazyHorse]

I wasn't being sarcastic when I said it was on the right track.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Frogger
How so?


c) It doesn't matter; the inspectors' job is to keep a lid on his activities, not make him as pure as the driven snow

That is incorrect. UNSC res 1441 makes no reference to "keeping a lid on" or to containment. Rather it calls for full disarmament - at leas wrt WMD, Iraq must be pure as the driven snow.

[KrazyHorse]

And it also makes no reference to military force.

The inspectors' job is to make sure he doesn't start amassing nasty virii or nukes. The US is the one trying to bootstrap it into war.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Frogger
And it also makes no reference to military force.

The inspectors' job is to make sure he doesn't start amassing nasty virii or nukes. The US is the one trying to bootstrap it into war.

This is incorrect. The inspectors job is to verify the destruction of WMD. Period. Iraq is to provide evidence of destruction or the inspectors are to oversee destruction. This is their only mandate.

WRT military force. "Serious consequences" are called for in the resolution for non-compliance. This term has been interpreted to mean use of force by not only the US, but the other members of the UNSC as well. The question that France has is on timing. They believe that there is a chance that the destruction of banned weapons can take place without use of force at this time . The US simply disagrees.

[Velociryx]

Thank you, Plato! Well said.

More Saddam last-minute waffling.

1441 called for him to disarm.

The missiles found are IN VIOLATION of 1441. No ifs, ands, or buts. They are not allowed.

But he kept them anyway.

Only when caught red-handed did he agree hastily to destroy them.

Jesus Christ, what's it gonna take for the peaceniks to get the hint!?

-=Vel=-

[Ozz]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Jesus Christ, what's it gonna take for the peaceniks to get the hint!?-=Vel=-

Why wasn't this cleaned up at the end of the last
Gulf war? Why is enforcing 1441 important now? and
not 5 years ago? How many countries are in violation
of UN rulings? Turkey, Israeli are for sure, maybe the
US should attack them.

OIL (hint, hint)

[Ned]

Originally posted by Frogger
And it also makes no reference to military force.

The inspectors' job is to make sure he doesn't start amassing nasty virii or nukes. The US is the one trying to bootstrap it into war.

Frogger, "serious consequences" may include military force.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ozz
OIL (hint, hint)

There isn't enough of it there for the undertaking to be worthwhile for that reason.