Has the right to dissent in this country vanished since 9/11?

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Calc II


My respect for Pekka just increased ten folds. You dont see people in forums admiting that they are wrong often.

Especially since victory was mine!

[Zero]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I come from a country where it is now illegal to boo the national anthem. Consider yourself lucky only to be attacked by thugs when you disrespect national symbols, rather than the police

Because "ignorant Cheese-eating-surrender-monkeys" suck!

More seriously, the people who told her to go home were jerks, but I don't see how it endangers free speech in the US. As long as there are no laws to forbid dissent, it is up to dissenters to organize against the rising bigotry : they have the right to.

A good ideological shift is what America needs, not an anti-insult law.

Well its not a extreme enough to NEED a anti-insult law, but if you ever read the chocolate war, those boys didn't HAVE TO sell the chocolates, but thats what they did. It's sort of a mob pysch.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Especially since victory was mine!

i didnt even know what the arguement was... (i just found the thread and now im gonna jack it! j/k)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Erm, can anyone explain the stroy to an ignorant Cheese-eating-surrender-monkey please ?

During the Olympics (I forget which one, but in the 70s, IIRC), two black Americans won Gold and Silver. When the anthem was being played, they raised their arms in a 'Black Power' salute. The IOC reprimanded them, because you aren't allowed to make political statements at the Olympics.

[Spiffor]

ok thx

[JohnT]

It was the 1968 Summer Olympics in Mexico City.

[SpencerH]

This looks like a reasonable summary of the events and repercussions.

[Sikander]

People say stupid things all the time. Many of them are stated or repeated here on this forum. "Get out of the country!" is perhaps as bad as likening the U.S. to a fascist state, as MRT did on page one of this thread. The peace protests recently had much more of this sort of hyperbole to the point of self-parody than all the cases of "love it or leave it" put together over the last several years. None of it convinces anyone of anything more than the righteousness of their long held opinions. Nothing is learned, no real communication takes place. The only possible benefit is that people can vent a little, but the cost is high.

[Guynemer]

Just out of curiosity--

When, where, and why did this rather strange and out-of-place tradition of singing the national anthem at sporting events start? (Olympics obviously not included.)

Does this happen at sporting events in other countries? Do they play "O Canada" before the Alouettes take on the Roughriders? Or "God Save the Queen" before Man U takes on... um... some other British soccer team?

This question has really bothered me for a long time.

[Sprayber]

Hello all... Taking a few moments to catch up on poly..

After reading this thread full of twists and turns and a few words of wisdom from Sava, I have yet to get exactly what is the problem here.

It appears that

She protested what she felt was some sort of shortcomming in US policy by turning her back on the flag during the National Anthem. And when people expressed their displeasure with it, she was shocked that people were offended and actually had the audacity to let her know about it.

Boris seems to say that they were acting in a less than sophisticated manner. *wonders if Boris has met many young Marines*

Monk seems to be lost in his Commie induced fantasy land (again) by saying that she is a maiden of virtue and the Marines are hunched back orcs ready to devour all that is good with what is left with the rights we have.

Imran, Dissident, et al seems to be insinuating that the girl should actually take responsiblity and accept the cosequences of her actions. (perhaps if she wanted to protest without the hassel of people responding, she should have joined the virtual protest.)

Michael the Great seems to have been ignored again because who wants to argue with someone that will tell you how it is.

Chris seems to have got himself caught in a two front war with GePap and Boris (with monk and sava sniping from the safety of the trees.) but still holding his own.

All in all a very silly thread especially given the title.

[Demerzel]

heh it always makes me laugh that such things could only happen in America ( j/k )

In England, we sing the national anthem before an England football match but certainly not before the start of a Liverpool match ( we sing "You'll never walk alone" before & after instead )

If someone chose not to sing, that would be their choice and no-one would give them stick for that and ditto if they chose to not face the union jack ( naturally that would have to be after we all went insane and felt the need to hang up our flag everywhere* )

Surely instead of arguing whether people have the right to protest, we should discuss just how far you can go to protest/counter-protest. Or would that reduce the fun for the trollers?

*I understand Americans are very patriotic but it really does seem OTT at times. I'm fiercely patriotric too but I'd never think to build a flagpole outside my house & raise/lower the flag at dawn & dusk, or pledge my allegiance daily, etc.. I would like to know why you guys do - i.e. I'm not trying to troll but would be interested in how the different mindset came about

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sprayber
Boris seems to say that they were acting in a less than sophisticated manner. *wonders if Boris has met many young Marines*

Heaven forbid our armed services personel conduct themselves in an appropriate manner.

Chris seems to have got himself caught in a two front war with GePap and Boris (with monk and sava sniping from the safety of the trees.) but still holding his own.

If that's what you call holding one's own, I'd hate to see what you call utter defeat!

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Heaven forbid our armed services personel conduct themselves in an appropriate manner. !

They are just like a lot 18-25 year old male. The most significant thing in their lives up to this point has been their miltary training. I probably would have jeered her too if I was that age and just got off duty or a training exercise. Now I'd simply shrug my shoulders and check out her ass. That or wonder how in hell I was talked into seeing a womens basketball game.

[Demerzel]

I'll never know how people get so worked up watching a basketball game.

"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"

mebbe I'm missing something of the finer issues but when the points scored are 100 - 98, it's kinda hard to get worked up over another 2pts.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Demerzel
I'll never know how people get so worked up watching a basketball game.

"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"
"Oh no they scored again! damn!"
"Oh look we scored again! wahoo!"

mebbe I'm missing something of the finer issues but when the points scored are 100 - 98, it's kinda hard to get worked up over another 2pts.

The last two to three minutes are the most exciting. It's like NASCAR, they go around and around for a long time but it's the last 10-15 laps that are of any excitement.